Upgraded Sump filter and mileage change intervals

[madmax-im]

I'm never one to question the cognoscenti...The common wisdom and belief is that because of the weak sump filter prone to tearing is that mileage change intervals should be around 1200 to 1500 miles but certainly less than the Yamaha service manual recommends..I could never wrap my head around that mileage interval.
Mikes has had the upgraded metal mesh sump filters for some time now and in discussing this with the master tech.. he states 3000 miles is appropriate for oil change intervals...

 

[5twins]

Well, the thing is, Mike's "upgraded" sump filters really aren't. They tear out just like the originals and in the same place. The trick is not to run hard while the oil is still cold and thick. That will tear out either type of filter, an original or one from Mike's. Even if we had sump filters that didn't tear out, I still don't think I'd be comfortable going 3K miles between oil changes. 2K maybe, but for now I'm sticking with the 1000 to 1500 interval.

 

[bikefreakjon]

I'm getting the paper filter upgrade. The oil gets pretty nasty in short order with just the screens.

Also if there is a lot of hot summer riding to be done an air-cooled engine like ours can really punish the oil. It can be seen on teardown as brown baked on oil on the bottom of the Pistons and in the rockerbox.

Having rebuilt quite a few engines, any skimping on oil changes is false economy.

Also air cleaner maintenance is important.

 

[Mailman]

Arizona is hot hot hot, the oil I buy is inexpensive. I buy it in big jugs and change it very frequently.

On another note, I love that garage! Is that Chaves? He sure has a lot of trophy’s and plaques on the walls, I’ve heard he can be a fast rider, did he used to race by any chance?

 

[madmax-im]

Interesting...I will err on the side of caution then...so what it will be is one oil change per season..The 650 isnt the main ride so 1500 miles per year will cover it. In the year i have had it i had about 800 miles on the oil...

 

[madmax-im]

Arizona is hot hot hot, the oil I buy is inexpensive. I buy it in big jugs and change it very frequently.

On another note, I love that garage! Is that Chaves? He sure has a lot of trophy’s and plaques on the walls, I’ve heard he can be a fast rider, did he used to race by any chance?

Yes he has raced for 5 yrs i think he said...Yes that is Chaves's Temple of Speed...I counted 16 bikes in there and a few more in parts in a container turned storage shed...all personally owned...Including a 1966 Ducati...

 

[madmax-im]

On the wall in the background are his racing leathers...

 

[Mikey]

Arizona is hot hot hot, the oil I buy is inexpensive. I buy it in big jugs and change it very frequently.

On another note, I love that garage! Is that Chaves? He sure has a lot of trophy’s and plaques on the walls, I’ve heard he can be a fast rider, did he used to race by any chance?

What oil are you using Wallmart special ??
I know I've read it in a previous posting but can't remember what brand
I'm using Valvoline 20-50 and it's spendy

 

[5twins]

1500 miles or one change per season would be a good practice. The cheap oil mentioned is the Walmart brand 20W-50, about $12 for a 5 quart jug. I know some don't, but I like to pull the sump filter at every change and inspect it. I try to take it easy when the motor is cold and the oil is thick, but that may not happen sometimes, and I know the filter is a weak spot. I have a couple extra plate and filter assemblies so have a clean one on hand to swap in.

I recently found that one of my repaired filters had torn again, not at the repair but in a different spot, opposite of the repair, on the backside of the filter. So, it seems when we repair them, the major stress point simply shifts to somewhere else on that end of the filter around the inlet hole on the sump plate. So, I've started making sheet metal bolt-on guards for that tear-prone end of the filter. They aren't a 100% tight fit but should cut the flow and hopefully the screen stress way down. I made them removable so I could still easily inspect the screen underneath for new tears .....

You'll notice the several different templates I made up. I had to do this because I discovered that the magnets on the back side of the filters are all located differently, don't know why .....

The above pic also shows another short coming on the MikesXS "improved" filter - the magnets can break loose and fall out, lol. So, check them when cleaning those filters. Also shown is the new 2nd tear I had to repair on that one filter I mentioned above.

 

[madmax-im]

Good information...Thanks 5twins

 

[Mailman]

What oil are you using Wallmart special ??

Yuppers!

 

[madmax-im]

Master Chaves insisted on using the Valvoline 20w50..even though I brought 3 qts of Walmart SuperTech 20w50...

 

[5twins]

Well, when you eventually change it yourself, he'll never know, will he, lol.

 

[Mikey]

I'm going to give the Walmart brand 20W-50 a try as my 2-3000 mile journeys are probably over with the 650

 

[Mikey]

Yuppers!
View attachment 175785

Not a problem not being motorcycle specific

 

[5twins]

No, not a problem. The thing you have to watch for on car oils is whether or not they are the "energy conserving" type. Those have additives that can make a wet clutch slip. Luckily, they only put them in the lighter oils, like 30wt and thinner. I'm thinking they don't help the thicker oils be any more efficient so they don't bother. Look at the API rating ring on the oil container. It will be marked if those additives are in there .....

 

[GLJ]

My on the sump strainer and oil change frequency.
As far as the sump strainer I will not use a Yamaha strainer just for what 5Twins shows in his pics. They are known to tear. When that happens you're basically got nothing there. Even after patching them they tear. I have been using a aftermarket strainer that looks like Mikes, did not buy them from him so I am not sure they are the same. What I like about the ones I bought is the expanded metal backer behind the screen. Since the screen has support it doesn't tear. Have not had a magnet fall out of any yet. If it did I don't see where it would be a major problem. Hard to see in the pic, behind the magnet is the screen and expanded metal so it's still going to strain the oil. I would guess the magnet would fall to the bottom of the sump and still do what magnets do.

As far as oil change frequency I think 3000 is to far. These engines do not have a PCV system on them so the oil is going to get contaminated sooner. I like to change mine at 1500 miles give or take a few hundred.

 

[5twins]

If you carefully examine your "reinforced" filter, I think you'll find that the perforated sheet metal backing doesn't run right behind the screen to support it everywhere. It veers away from the screen and ducks behind the mounting bolt tube in that area that juts out next to the magnet. Yes, the area that always tears out first, lol. So, as reinforced as these aftermarket filters may be, they don't have it where it's needed most. They'll tear out just like the originals and in the same spot.

In the pic below, the filter on the lower left is a MikesXS unit. At it's first oil change (about 1100 mi.), I found it torn and the magnet had come loose. I have to admit though, this was before I was aware of the fact that you need to take it easy until the oil warms up and thins out. I have another I've been using and it hasn't torn out yet, but I'm gentler on them now, lol.

 

[madmax-im]

Well, when you eventually change it yourself, he'll never know, will he, lol.

Ha ha..Honestly I cant believe theres any difference...Its the typical debate...I have been using Super tech 20w50 for 10+ yrs and never had any issues.
Locally it costs $2.78 per qt

 

[Mikey]

My on the sump strainer and oil change frequency.
As far as the sump strainer I will not use a Yamaha strainer just for what 5Twins shows in his pics. They are known to tear. When that happens you're basically got nothing there. Even after patching them they tear. I have been using a aftermarket strainer that looks like Mikes, did not buy them from him so I am not sure they are the same. What I like about the ones I bought is the expanded metal backer behind the screen. Since the screen has support it doesn't tear. Have not had a magnet fall out of any yet. If it did I don't see where it would be a major problem. Hard to see in the pic, behind the magnet is the screen and expanded metal so it's still going to strain the oil. I would guess the magnet would fall to the bottom of the sump and still do what magnets do.
View attachment 175786
As far as oil change frequency I think 3000 is to far. These engines do not have a PCV system on them so the oil is going to get contaminated sooner. I like to change mine at 1500 miles give or take a few hundred.

If you happen to think of where you bought these besides Mike's Id like to check it out
I've repaired one with JB weld and 1 with new screen on the outside and JB weld