VIDEO -- of my Aprilia hydraulic clutch mod

gggGary said:
Thinking out loud, would that cutter work without the pilot bit in it?
Click to expand...
The same question occurred to me. I looked closely at the tool, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. You could only make a plunge cut. There would be an uncut 1/8" diameter "plug" in the center. This would prevent you from making a moving cut (moving whatever object you were cutting) like with a router. You could make a plunge cut, raise the bit, move the object, make another plunge cut, repeat, and end up with a router-like result. It would be a pretty inexpensive, if clumsy, way to get that result.
https://www.amazon.com/Onsrud-Up-Cut-Spiral-Mortising-Router/dp/B0020B358G
Not really sure, but I think some type of router bit would be more appropriate, but maybe a lot more expensive.
 
DogBunny said:

View attachment 215112
I have decided to put a hydraulic clutch on the Super RustBucket. I have literally spent hours and hours -- like an entire day -- researching this. I've read every single relevant thread on this and other forums, but maybe I'm missing some information gems hidden in member's build threads. I'm open to and am soliciting any help and suggestions.

The basis for my install is information by member osteoderm in his build thread:
https://www.xs650.com/threads/good-...another-build-thread.13561/page-3#post-138656
and info provided by member ippytattoo in a few different threads, including this one:
https://www.xs650.com/threads/hydraulic-clutch-cover-mod-service.34784/
in which he used to offer an Aprilia "kit," including modification of the left case cover.
However, these threads are over 8 years old, and all of the pics are missing from osteoderm's thread, plus he's been mia for over 7 years, so I think it's time for an update.

View attachment 215113
Here is ippytattoo's hydraulic clutch in mock-up stage. Basically, the mod is pretty simple: you bolt an Aprilia slave cylinder where the worm gear used to be, you make a longer push rod, and that's pretty much it.

Today I bought the knock-off Aprilia slave cylinder in the first picture above. So, it'll be a few days before it arrives and I can begin.

View attachment 215114
Here's another ippytattoo install in mock-up stage. Note the bleeder screw which is incorporated in the banjo bolt.

View attachment 215115
Here's another Aprilia install by short-time member Opus5150. When I first looked at this, I didn't see the bleeder screw. I though the hose went directly into the cylinder with a straight hose end, instead of the 90-degree banjo bolt fitting actually used.

Which brings me to my first question: is the bleeder screw even necessary???

In mrriggs' most excellent hydraulic clutch thread:
https://xs650temp.proboards.com/thread/17567/bolt-on-hydraulic-clutch-conversion
he states:

I despise brake fluid so this was designed as a "mineral oil" system. You will hear all kinds of opinions on what fluid is best; baby oil, ATF, fork oil, power steering fluid, or even [gasp] mineral oil brake fluid. I like fork oil because it's easy to get, has good lubricating properties and seal conditioners. I'm using the thinnest stuff I could find, RedLine "Like Water".

I agree, brake fluid sucks. Which brings me to my second question:

View attachment 215116
Why not use this stuff? Without a bleeder screw? Just fill the Aprilia slave cylinder up with fluid using a syringe, then start a gravity siphon using mineral oil in the hydraulic hose, and screw the hose into the slave as the mineral oil dribbles out. No air gets in, and the dribbled out mess is just mineral oil, so easy clean up.
I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself, but when the time comes, is there any reason this would be a bad idea?

EDIT: Just wanted to add for the record that the Aprilia slave cylinder has a 30mm bore. Thought that might be useful for mathemagicians who are trying to figure out push rod travel, or to compare to other slave cylinder options.
Click to expand...
How much longer does the push rod need to be?
 
JesseeS said:
I believe @ippytattoo stated he used 296mm-300mm rods with proper function on his a while back. But YMMV
Click to expand...
Yes, ippy was helpful to me while I did my conversion. He used a single rod that he made from a long piece of 8mm stock, rather than the re-configured factory rods that I used.
Sorry that I don't have a length, but it will depend on how deeply you make your counterbores, and how many washers you use when you mount the slave.
 
Good job DB. The video makes it all seem easy. Which it is. I went a different route, with Honda master and slave. Matched set, so now worries with sizing and one piece line. Nissin parts so easy to get replacement seals. Kept the long rod and shortened the shorter stocker to fit with second bb between them. But, I had to remove the worm mount material from the cover, using a drill and files. Works great, recommended mod if someone has trouble with loss of lever travel.
 
I cannot understand these hydraulic clutch mods, when stock separates the plates in the blink of an eye. Does everybody have arthritis in their left hand so they can't pull the cable? I do appreciate the skill required to do these things, but doing something useless is always condemnable.
 
It’s not useless if it works. The issue was really never plate separation. Hydraulic clutches are an almost zero maintenance system, as well as providing a lighter pull. Arthritis has nothing to do with it, but given the age of most of the folks who ride these bikes it’s definitely a benefit. Almost every modern bike has a hydraulic clutch now except for the budget bikes, and it’s not because of arthritis.
 
51_165SWlHOgrWiDktF1z.jpg

https://www.xs650shop.de/en/handlebar-instruments/1372/clutch-kit-hydraulic-sw-1650mm?c=102
I learned today that the German XS650 supply house sells a hydraulic clutch kit. At today's exchange rate, cost is about $340.

Untitled-1.jpg

This is a HIDDEN slave style, like mrriggs'.
I looked at the instructions and it is a little involved. The one thing I don't understand is Der Kupplungsausrücker ist imLinken Seitendecker eingebaut. Actually, just being a wise guy there -- the instructions are in German, so I don't understand any of it, but I did like the sound of that particular phrase.

I got word from someone who installed it that it releases fast, so you have to feather the clutch. This tells me that the bore of the master cylinder is too big.
 
Pricey, but a nice option for people who are unable/do not want to modify covers and dial it in. I do like that it is hidden, although there is something to be said about it being visual as a definite conversation piece.
 
JesseeS said:
Pricey, but a nice option for people who are unable/do not want to modify covers and dial it in. I do like that it is hidden, although there is something to be said about it being visual as a definite conversation piece.
Click to expand...
https://www.xs650shop.de/media/pdf/4d/29/cb/51_165SW_08_0281B_en.pdf
I don't know why it wasn't visible before, but here are the English instructions. It does seem to be an easier install, although there is a possibility that you will have to remove a small amount of material from the engine case for clearance.
I like it being hidden too which is nice. However, it means having to take the cover off to get to it, kind of a PITA, which you don't have to do with the Aprilia. And you almost certainly will have to jack with it a few times when you set it up. In particular, you will probably have to dial in the push rod length. I mentioned feedback from someone who installed it, that it released the clutch too quickly, requiring feathering -- an indication that the M/C is too big, but it's also possible that adjusting push rod length would help.
 
DogBunny said:
View attachment 222854
https://www.xs650shop.de/en/handlebar-instruments/1372/clutch-kit-hydraulic-sw-1650mm?c=102
I learned today that the German XS650 supply house sells a hydraulic clutch kit. At today's exchange rate, cost is about $340.

View attachment 222855
This is a HIDDEN slave style, like mrriggs'.
I looked at the instructions and it is a little involved. The one thing I don't understand is Der Kupplungsausrücker ist imLinken Seitendecker eingebaut. Actually, just being a wise guy there -- the instructions are in German, so I don't understand any of it, but I did like the sound of that particular phrase.

I got word from someone who installed it that it releases fast, so you have to feather the clutch. This tells me that the bore of the master cylinder is too big.
Click to expand...
Very interesting….
 
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I read the installation instructions and looks super simple. The only thing I don’t like is having to grind away material from the engine case. But it seems thats not needed on every installation? I like the fact it’s “hidden”. Wonder how close the slave is yo the sprocket when installed? Might look at getting one.

Thanks @DogBunny for the intel!

Vendor’s site says “not available”. Makes me wonder why. Sold out or issues?

Anyone know how thick the engine case is where the material is to be removed?

18D30696-29E9-4753-94A0-6A936335C69A.png
 
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DogBunny said:
View attachment 222854
https://www.xs650shop.de/en/handlebar-instruments/1372/clutch-kit-hydraulic-sw-1650mm?c=102
I learned today that the German XS650 supply house sells a hydraulic clutch kit. At today's exchange rate, cost is about $340.

View attachment 222855
This is a HIDDEN slave style, like mrriggs'.
The one thing I don't understand is Der Kupplungsausrücker ist imLinken Seitendecker eingebaut. Actually, just being a wise guy there -- the instructions are in German, so I don't understand any of it, but I did like the sound of that particular phrase.

I got word from someone who installed it that it releases fast, so you have to feather the clutch. This tells me that the bore of the master cylinder is too big.
Click to expand...
1661444629871.png
 
bosco659 said:
I read the installation instructions and looks super simple.
Vendor’s site says “not available”. Makes me wonder why. Sold out or issues?
Click to expand...
I would guess sold out. If it had issues, they would take it off the site.
wannabridin said:
https://www.xs650shop.de/en/crankcase/1557/clutch-slave-hydraulic-70-84

You can also (someday) buy just the slave and get a MC that is more better suited.
Click to expand...
I understand the installation now, and yes, it is incredibly simple.
However, there is no way that I would trust the rod length to come out exact. Wear on clutch plates? Thickness, or existence of case cover gasket? There are two many vagaries that will affect optimal rod length from one bike to another, and a very small push rod length change can have a profound effect on operation.

s-l1600 (1).jpg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373094175694
I'd plan on using these. These are the shim washers that I used, as explained at 19:25 in the video. I bought 10 of the 0.2 mm thick, 8mm OD washers, and I'm using 5 of them.
 
DogBunny said:
I would guess sold out. If it had issues, they would take it off the site.

I understand the installation now, and yes, it is incredibly simple.
However, there is no way that I would trust the rod length to come out exact. Wear on clutch plates? Thickness, or existence of case cover gasket? There are two many vagaries that will affect optimal rod length from one bike to another, and a very small push rod length change can have a profound effect on operation.

View attachment 222969
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373094175694
I'd plan on using these. These are the shim washers that I used, as explained at 19:25 in the video. I bought 10 of the 0.2 mm thick, 8mm OD washers, and I'm using 5 of them.
Click to expand...
I would think the travel in the slave cylinder piston would compensate for plate wear. I don’t think there would be a check valve in the slave, master or line so the system would always remain “in adjustment”?
 
bosco659 said:
I would think the travel in the slave cylinder piston would compensate for plate wear. I don’t think there would be a check valve in the slave, master or line so the system would always remain “in adjustment”?
Click to expand...
No. If your rod is way too long, your clutch plates will always be separated. If your rod is way too short, your clutch plates will never separate. Those are extreme examples, but the principal applies if the rod is just a little too short or long. You will feel a 0.2mm difference at the lever. It will affect when and how the clutch releases.
 

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