Welding thread

0.8 is thin I don't think it is possible with stick weld at least it was not.
( Not talking spot here )
When I worked with sheet metal 70 ies .. 1 mm could go SoSo
And experts could do it even with big electrodes
Perhaps the auto masks gives more time today to get it right.

Higher Current then it gets difficult to start without blowing a hole immediately
I have watched a skilled operator once ...co worker welding 1.0 mm with a big electrode
ca 3 mm diameter. Without stopping Through an extra mask not believing he could do it

When he started and if the melt was beginning to fall trough starting to become a hole
One could see that coming
He was able to move the stick a little ---is it pendling moving the electrode in English
Without stopping in a movement that he varied . Not the same But instead depending on how it looked at the spot that
looked as falling through . and then move back and forth to the place that was close to burn through.
Not stopping welding and not solidify the weld.pool . It was a Restaurant fan cover. Mild steel .ca 1 meter 1 .5
long weld.
He got one or two holes but the rest was non stop.
Have not heard of anyone else capable of that . But feel free correct me if those more into daily welding
See it differently

He had some kind of Welding License don't know which. . And I have never heard of anyone else being able to do it
0.8 is thin

And yes to that
Learning how move fast with precision is the real trick..
It's called weaving in English. While welding <1mm materials with SMAW is possible it's not really the preferred method, brazing, TIG, or gas welding would be and to a lesser extent MIG and FCAW. But with the right size/type of rod and the correct amperage it is doable especially with modern HF modulation. The problem with thin materials and SMAW is heat soak, it's the thinner materials ability (or lack there of) to dissipate heat. Meaning the piece will become to hot and the heat affected zone to big to continue welding. But there are lots of tricks out there, like using large pieces of aluminum clamped to your work to act as heat sinks, or using heat sink paste like Cool Blue or Heat Trap. Also stitching, welding in short bursts and alternating locations. My dad (a life long pipe fitter and rail car fab welder) always said that "welding is 90% muscle memory and 10% situational awareness." A common saying among real welders is that "If I can step across it I can weld it." With the a little bit of knowledge, a LOT of practice, a fair amount of ingenuity, and the right filler materials any two ferrous metals can be joined with any process. Don't get to hung up on using the right process for what your welding but rather pay more attention to using your process right. SMAW was the industry standard for arc welding for nearly 40-50 years before the advent of MIG, FCAW, & TIG in the 50's and even then those process were not available to shade tree Sammy for nearly 20 more years and were still very expensive. I've seen a lot of autobody work done with a Lincoln Buzzbox and some 1/16-6013 some of it looked ok most did not.:cheers:
 
Autobody with 6013 sounds like a sure way to torture yourself.


It's called weaving in English. While welding <1mm materials with SMAW is possible it's not really the preferred method, brazing, TIG, or gas welding would be and to a lesser extent MIG and FCAW. But with the right size/type of rod and the correct amperage it is doable especially with modern HF modulation. The problem with thin materials and SMAW is heat soak, it's the thinner materials ability (or lack there of) to dissipate heat. Meaning the piece will become to hot and the heat affected zone to big to continue welding. But there are lots of tricks out there, like using large pieces of aluminum clamped to your work to act as heat sinks, or using heat sink paste like Cool Blue or Heat Trap. Also stitching, welding in short bursts and alternating locations. My dad (a life long pipe fitter and rail car fab welder) always said that "welding is 90% muscle memory and 10% situational awareness." A common saying among real welders is that "If I can step across it I can weld it." With the a little bit of knowledge, a LOT of practice, a fair amount of ingenuity, and the right filler materials any two ferrous metals can be joined with any process. Don't get to hung up on using the right process for what your welding but rather pay more attention to using your process right. SMAW was the industry standard for arc welding for nearly 40-50 years before the advent of MIG, FCAW, & TIG in the 50's and even then those process were not available to shade tree Sammy for nearly 20 more years and were still very expensive. I've seen a lot of autobody work done with a Lincoln Buzzbox and some 1/16-6013 some of it looked ok most did not.:cheers:
 
Autobody with 6013 sounds like a sure way to torture yourself.
It truly does, but it was done that way at one time. To us it sounds like pure hell, but to the guys who only had access to a buzz box and a gas rig it wasn't that big a deal. It was braze, gas weld, or SMAW and they could put anything back together with those.
 
That almost sounds like a whip and pause, the kind of technique you’d use on an open root joint. I’ve welded (PLENTY) of unwanted gaps by bridging them up, lots of filler and moving across the middle quickly or essentially keeping the puddle satisfied, but spending most of your time ahead of it if that makes sense.

QUOTE="Jan_P, post: 711011, member: 18345"]0.8 is thin I don't think it is possible with stick weld at least it was not.
( Not talking spot here )
When I worked with sheet metal 70 ies .. 1 mm could go SoSo
And experts could do it even with big electrodes
Perhaps the auto masks gives more time today to get it right.

Higher Current then it gets difficult to start without blowing a hole immediately
I have watched a skilled operator once ...co worker welding 1.0 mm with a big electrode
ca 3 mm diameter. Without stopping Through an extra mask not believing he could do it

When he started and if the melt was beginning to fall trough starting to become a hole
One could see that coming
He was able to move the stick a little ---is it pendling moving the electrode in English
Without stopping in a movement that he varied . Not the same But instead depending on how it looked at the spot that
looked as falling through . and then move back and forth to the place that was close to burn through.
Not stopping welding and not solidify the weld.pool . It was a Restaurant fan cover. Mild steel .ca 1 meter 1 .5
long weld.
He got one or two holes but the rest was non stop.
Have not heard of anyone else capable of that . But feel free correct me if those more into daily welding
See it differently

He had some kind of Welding License don't know which. . And I have never heard of anyone else being able to do it
0.8 is thin

And yes to that
Learning how move fast with precision is the real trick..[/QUOTE]
 
I had a go at 1.3mm sheet metal yesterday and I was surprised how much easier it was at 20A and 6013 using a 2mm rod than a 1.6mm rod. I guess it has something to do with where the heat is going. Perhaps more heat is consumed in the thicker rod melting??? I used 6013 because my selection guide said it gives less penetration which I assume will mean less chance of making holes. The final technique I settled on was approx. 0.5 second spot welds rather than stitching.

I will try higher current in the next week as suggested by Rustie in an earlier comment.
 
20A is a little on the low side for .8mm. A good metric to use is 40A per 1mm of material thickness, so your starting point would for .8mm would be roughly 32A. Low amperage is actually worse than high.

Not being one to listen to advice I decided that Rusties suggestion was actually my own idea. So I set up some 0.83mm sheet and started to play with amperage. First I cut the small sheet in two and stitched it in 0.5cm sections (big spots rather than stitches) at 20A and 1.6mm. Rough but satisfying with a hole at start off: See 3rd from top or spot the hole.
Weld.JPG

Then came Rusties suggestion of using 40A per mm thickness:
  1. Top: Bead put down in approx. 3/8" stitches using 1.6mm and 30A.
  2. 2nd from Top: Bead put down in approx. 1/2" stitches using 1.6mm and 35A.
  3. Botton: Bead put down in one continuous 3" run using 1.6mm and 40A.
Now these results really surprised me, but an interesting lesson. I could definitely have done a much better job of that fuel pump cover using 40A - But that's life.

Thank you Rustie for moving me a step further down the path of progress.

After thought:

Old fuel pump:
Old.JPG

Fuel pump with new cover fitted:
New.JPG

Amazing how a quick grind, sand and paint improves a rough weld job...:hump:
 
Not being one to listen to advice I decided that Rusties suggestion was actually my own idea. So I set up some 0.83mm sheet and started to play with amperage. First I cut the small sheet in two and stitched it in 0.5cm sections (big spots rather than stitches) at 20A and 1.6mm. Rough but satisfying with a hole at start off: See 3rd from top or spot the hole.
View attachment 199228

Then came Rusties suggestion of using 40A per mm thickness:
  1. Top: Bead put down in approx. 3/8" stitches using 1.6mm and 30A.
  2. 2nd from Top: Bead put down in approx. 1/2" stitches using 1.6mm and 35A.
  3. Botton: Bead put down in one continuous 3" run using 1.6mm and 40A.
Now these results really surprised me, but an interesting lesson. I could definitely have done a much better job of that fuel pump cover using 40A - But that's life.

Thank you Rustie for moving me a step further down the path of progress.

After thought:

Old fuel pump:
View attachment 199229

Fuel pump with new cover fitted:
View attachment 199230

Amazing how a quick grind, sand and paint improves a rough weld job...:hump:
@Paul Sutton looking much better. Like they always say you don’t know what you don’t know. Glad to have been of assistance.
 
My Virago has a hot region where the headers meet the scilencers and this is slowly scorching my trousers (surface melting the Cordura). Decided to make up some heat shields before wearing my new Akitas:

1. The shields were beaten from 0.9mm 304 stainless sheet so when polished they would match the pipes - very tuff stuff to beat into shape compared to mild steel.
2. The mounts were made by tacking 1cm long stainless bar OD 12mm (drilled with internal M5 threads) to stainless Jubilee clips using 316 sticks.

I had major issues trying to strike an arc using the 316 sticks. In the end I had to strike the arc on a block of aluminum and transfer it over to the jubilee clips. I have not had to do this before so wonder if 316 sticks are known to be difficult? I should have used 308L sticks but they were not available at the time in 1/16".

End result (Click to Enlarge):
Shield.JPG
 
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My Virago has a hot region where the headers meet the scilencers and this is slowly scorching my trousers (surface melting the Cordura). Decided to make up some heat shields before wearing my new Akitas:

1. The shields were beaten from 0.9mm 304 stainless sheet so when polished they would match the pipes - very tuff stuff to beat into shape compared to mild steel.
2. The mounts were made by tacking 1cm long stainless bar (drilled with internal M5 threads) to stainless Jubilee clips using 316 sticks.

I had major issues trying to strike an arc using the 316 sticks. In the end I had to strike the arc on a block of aluminum and transfer it over to the jubilee clips. I have not had to do this before so wonder if 316 sticks are known to be difficult? I should have used 308L sticks but they were not available at the time in 1/16".

End result (Click to Enlarge):
View attachment 199934


Looking good please tell how you formed it Stainless is tougher ..The same method as when kick starting a Norton
A piece of leather or rubber between the teeth and then both hands on the Scissors And go for it ..
1 mm perhaps but a little thicker it can be better use a saw. Unless the machines are available of course.
 
I don’t recall 316 rods being hard on restarts. Maybe a grounding problem?


My Virago has a hot region where the headers meet the scilencers and this is slowly scorching my trousers (surface melting the Cordura). Decided to make up some heat shields before wearing my new Akitas:

1. The shields were beaten from 0.9mm 304 stainless sheet so when polished they would match the pipes - very tuff stuff to beat into shape compared to mild steel.
2. The mounts were made by tacking 1cm long stainless bar (drilled with internal M5 threads) to stainless Jubilee clips using 316 sticks.

I had major issues trying to strike an arc using the 316 sticks. In the end I had to strike the arc on a block of aluminum and transfer it over to the jubilee clips. I have not had to do this before so wonder if 316 sticks are known to be difficult? I should have used 308L sticks but they were not available at the time in 1/16".

End result (Click to Enlarge):
View attachment 199934
 
The stainless came as a 400mm x 100mm strip for £5 on Eday. I cut it in half with a hacksaw. Then drew the rounded edges and snipped it to shape with tin snips. This would be impossible for me using 1mm hence the reason I ordered 0.9mm. Final smoothing using a grinder followed by sand paper on the edges.To get the tubular shape I placed my 600mm x 25mm stainless bar horizontally in the vice and used it as an anvil. Then beat to shape using a rubber mallet so as not to mark the stainless. Drilled holes then polished on a wheel. I recommend wearing a thick leather gloves when beating to shape to absorb some of the shock and prevent cuts.
 
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TJZ662, maybe a grounding issue because the very first weld worked perfect. It was interesting to try the technique of starting the arc on Aluminum first. I have read about it using Copper but just happened to have Aluminum close to hand.
 
PT is probably US NPT, National Pipe Thread which does differ somewhat from BSP and JIC
Huh, tell me about it.
A couple of years ago I picked up a used oil cooler, take-off adapter and pipework for my old GS.
This summer, when it came to finally getting around to fitting it, driven by the hot running in summer weather with the big old fairing on it, I discovered that the old cooler was really not adequate, being a tube-type.
So, I bought a ten row modern cooler, AN-8 hose and appropriate fittings. They've all only just arrived, and now I find I have to find AN-8 to 1/4" NPT adapters for the take-off point. A pain in the arse, is what it is. Still, all parts finally ordered, but it was so much easier when everything was simply BSP, at least this side of the pond.
 
20A is a little on the low side for .8mm. A good metric to use is 40A per 1mm of material thickness, so your starting point would for .8mm would be roughly 32A. Low amperage is actually worse than high. It necessitates slower travel speeds which leads to a greater heat effected area, which leads to holes, blowouts, and warping. Learning how move fast with precision is the real trick. Welding is great fun and you'll soon find yourself looking for welding projects. Congrats on your new welder.
Best welder I ever knew was the welding manager of a plant company I used to work for. He spent most of his time in the office, but occasionally ventured out into the shop and I recall one occasion where he demonstrated how to weld really thin metal with a small rod. Absolutely perfect.
 
After considerable thinking I decided to buy a modern stick welder since the UK prices have dropped recently. It has been at least 10 - 15 years since I ditched my old stick welder and changed to MIG:

View attachment 198346

This is a 20 - 140A inverter with hot start, force arc, anti-stick and that safety feature to drop the open voltage to 20V so you don't get zapped. It also has the option of Lift TIG should I want. My old stick welder was a struggle to carry but this can be held in one hand easily. I played with stick welding this morning and was amazed how easy these modern inverters allow for very easy arc striking and then give very nice arc stability. I tested it out on 1.3mm steel using 1.6mm sticks at 20A. It was easy to weld and easy to avoid blowing through the metal.The quality of the Earth clip, welding electrode and the cable are all very good. It also came with a UK based 2 Year Warranty. It cost £70 whereas the really cheap ones are £50 but lack the Lift Tig option. I suspect I will buy an Argon bottle and gas relay in a few months since I already own a TIG torch in a box somewhere.

So it is the Real Deal then ... welds on thin plate looked very good.
So I have been thinking about it a new inverter could be something to go for
Paul Do you have a link for that one might be customs problem since you left EU
I have been watching and found those

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334160037527?hash=item4dcd7d8697:g:IoEAAOSwWzNgrGsx

Is that a mistake Feel free to comment It is small and then movable which is something good but can it weld ??
Just for the quick out on the yard ..sticking it together. Things..

AS with the experiment making belt buckles of an old chain Feel free to comment
They are resting on a stainless steel plate which I can polish and have as center piece.
But not sure yet.


IMAG0044.jpg
 
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