Wheel bearing install - help!

Duck749

Duck749

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So this is my first time doing bearings, they came out hard but hubs looked good and bearings definitely shot ('78 Xs650 Special). Sent off the bare mag rims for powder coating and after reading/you tubing and planning I became ready to rebuild. My old parts were all cleaned and inspected and All Balls front/rear bearings ordered.

Bearings arrived and I decided to tackle front wheel first. Confirmed part numbers were correct and put bearings in freezer overnight. This morning I pulled out first bearing, aligned with hub and couple whacks fell right into place and bottomed out - great that was easy! Placed the wheel sensor parts in and installed oil seal. Flipped wheel over, grabbed next bearing and it dropped right into place.

Thought something was weird and let bearing come back to temp, which I can pull bearing in and out by hand. Removed the sleeve and then found the one installed on other side can move in/out. Measured the old bearings and found the All Balls are about .002" smaller diameter. Ok, seems like I could have received undersize bearings? However, went to rear wheel and after smaller bearing was in freezer for couple hours tried that, few taps and fell in place. What are the odds that I would have either two bad rims or 3 out of 4 bearings too small? Anyone experience similar issues like this in that bearings can be pulled in and out by hand?
 
That's a kludge fix, might be fine for a lawnmower bearing but not a motorcycle wheel.. Bearings should FIT, not slop around. Need to get to the bottom of this. If All Balls is shipping undersize bearings they need to correct their mistake and send the right parts.
 
I tend to agree with Gary on this one. Basically the equivalent of gluing them in place. Not a permanent fix.

I would be surprised if all the bearings were made incorrectly. Being a critical dimension I would find it hard to believe they botched that one up but anything is possible. Did you check their dimension to what their spec is. Perhaps they are not the correct bearing. Comparing it to the one you just bashed out may not be a good comparison.
 
don't know the origin, but yeah a poor substitute for the correct way of doing things.

kludge - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kludge
kludge (plural kludges) (electronics engineering) An improvised device, usually crudely constructed. Typically used to test the validity of a principle before doing a finished design. (general) Any construction or practice, typically inelegant, designed to solve a problem temporarily or expediently.
Yes I have shimmed bearings into sloppy housings just not motorcycle wheel bearings, I hesitate to tell you about my Prius front wheel bearings, and brutal mail route abuse. The wheel bearing is pressed into the aluminum hub, that lives in a constant hot/cold salt grit bath with heavy constant steering inputs, yuck.
 
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I know on some of the old machinery i used to work on if the bearing race used to slip or not a tight fit i used to pop some center punch marks on the housing then loctite the race in place. It worked really well. Just a few small raised points from the pop marks and loctite holds it.
Did it once for a $40k TMK bearing on an industrial dough mixer from a bakery. That took me over 2hrs to pop the marks but held up for many years!
Cheers
 
found these on the net ...don't know if they might contain something helpful.?....

When you removed the old bearings was there any evidence of them having spun at all ?
Watch out for the bearing dust caps there are 2x widths . Your 78 special should need the narrower type like mine if you have spoked wheels. I was supplied the thicker type with my bearing kit and the dust cap jammed the rear wheel .! When fitted the cap should end up flush with the face of the hub.
6305-2RS.jpg
Wheel_Bearing_Chart.gif

XS650 Wheel Bearings.jpg
 
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Thanks peanut that is good info, I couldn't find any info on the tolerance.

I will probably have to wait for response from All Balls given holiday. I rechecked the hubs this morning and they are pretty concentric and measure .002" larger than bearings. For front I am seeing them at 47mm, which read somewhere should be line on line contact with the bearing.

Thanks everyone will let you know what I find out.
 
This is not directly related to the bearings but to All balls. I purchased a caliper rebuild kit for my Roadstar. It was clearly marked for 2004 to 2011. It was not complete, as two of the four pistons are different sizes and seals in the kit are for 1 piston size only. Had to purchase seals from Yamaha and costs was more for 4 seals than the entire all balls kit. I am very skeptical at All balls since then. Hope you get it sorted out. JC
 
I've encountered slightly loose fitting races in a couple of All Balls steering bearing kits now so far. They installed fine and seem to work OK, and maybe (I hope) it won't be of much concern in this application because the bearing isn't spinning at high speed. It would bother me for wheel bearings though.

The 650 wheel bearings are just common metric bearing sizes. I would just buy some good brand name replacements. I usually re-use the grease seals, as long as I didn't ruin them during the removal process.
 
I've done two All Balls rear wheels. The first was fine, and the more recent something was funny with the seal, hard to remember but I think it was too tall, and I straightened out the old seal and reused it.
 
xjwmx said:
I've done two All Balls rear wheels. The first was fine, and the more recent something was funny with the seal, hard to remember but I think it was too tall, and I straightened out the old seal and reused it.
Click to expand...

are you talking about the dust seal ? I had the same problem a few years back and found I had been given the wrong width cap with the bearing set. I assumed that mag and spoked wheels use a different dust cap width
 
Peanut, I really liked all the birdsong in the background of your video. Do you have an avery or was it all from wild birds?
 
Ha ha its like living in an aviary here Paul... I love photographing them from my conservatory . I started feeding the garden birds about 20 years ago and now we have an amazing variety in our garden including some uncommon species like Snow Bunting, Flycatchers, Nuthatches, Goldcrest,Tree Creepers, Sparrow Hawks , Great Spotted and Green Woodpeckers , Redwing, Fieldfare etc .

It costs us about £40+ a month but its worth it to see so many species breeding around our garden. In the summer we see the parent birds bring their newly fledged youngsters to the garden to show them where they can feed year round. To see our resident Great Spotted Woodpecker bring its fledglings to the suet feeder outside my window over the years is just extraordinary .

if you are interested i have a few photos I have taken on Flickr You'll need to scroll past all the scooter images though lol.
Happy New year to you Paul
Johnny
https://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/
 
peanut said:
Ha ha its like living in an aviary here Paul... I love photographing them from my conservatory . I started feeding the garden birds about 20 years ago and now we have an amazing variety in our garden including some uncommon species like Snow Bunting, Flycatchers, Nuthatches, Goldcrest,Tree Creepers, Sparrow Hawks , Great Spotted and Green Woodpeckers , Redwing, Fieldfare etc .

It costs us about £40+ a month but its worth it to see so many species breeding around our garden. In the summer we see the parent birds bring their newly fledged youngsters to the garden to show them where they can feed year round. To see our resident Great Spotted Woodpecker bring its fledglings to the suet feeder outside my window over the years is just extraordinary .

if you are interested i have a few photos I have taken on Flickr You'll need to scroll past all the scooter images though lol.
Happy New year to you Paul
Johnny
https://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/
Click to expand...


Good morning Johnny,

as my kids say you have "MAD" photography skills. I am blown away - was working on my Bluebird houses yesterday !
 
Paul Sutton said:
Peanut, fabulous photos!
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul glad you liked them .:thumbsup:

Apologies for the thread hijack Duck ;)

Scripto VU said:
Good morning Johnny,

as my kids say you have "MAD" photography skills. I am blown away - was working on my Bluebird houses yesterday !
Click to expand...

Kids eh ! :laugh2: ............'You smashed it Dad' is another current accolade .:rolleyes:
Thanks for the appreciation Scripto . We are lucky enough to live on the edge of the Countryside and have some amazing wildlife come into our garden.
Maybe we should start a photography thread :)
 
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Really disappointed with All Balls. Originally they were great to respond and got me connected to the 3rd party tech support that they use. I sent pictures with my calipers showing bearings at 46.95 and my hub in clean condition and measuring 47mm. The tech support comes back and mentions that "All of our bearing are going to spec out at 46.95". I called them and expressed disappointment in the fact that picture above from McMaster has a .013mm tolerance and there supposedly quality parts run at .05mm tolerance. In addition the bearings I pulled out from OEM measure 47 so I at least have line-line interference - nothing they can do have a good day.
 
Yeah that sucks. pretty sure the wheel bearings are a standard bearing house item. Like 5twins always says add a bit of grease to them before install.
 

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