win some, lose some -- 1971 XS1B

Excellent work! Could use a few holes though.:laugh::laugh::laugh:
DSCN1492-001.JPG
You mean like this?

DSC06284.JPG

Interior view of chez DogBunny featuring wall art by halfmile. I do have plans for that cover.

DSC06283.JPGDSC06282.JPG
The engine is totally finished.

Untitled-2.jpg

It was important to me to fully assemble the engine before I lost or accidentally sold parts of it. I am nowhere near being ready to use it. I am now turning all of my attention to the XS2 that I acquired from Vincenthdfan.
The win-lose XS1B engine will be bagged to protect from dust and placed somewhere out-of-the-way. I bought a 1-pound bag of white rice to put in the bag, hoping to stave off corrosion.
 
As seen in last photo, the early metal dipsticks polish up well. If you are building a fancy bike, or even not, but just care what your bike looks like, and if you have polishing equipment, I strongly suggest you acquire an early metal dipstick and polish it.

View attachment 354039
Yeah, the metal dipsticks weigh more than 3 times what a plastic one does -- 178 grams vs 53 grams -- but you can drill speed holes in the metal ones like I layed out above, and make it look even cooler.

As I noted before, I found one on EB... polishing isn't as good as yours, but ok for me!
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20250903_164758056~2.jpg
    PXL_20250903_164758056~2.jpg
    165.5 KB · Views: 54
DSC04009.JPG
Back to this dang brake plate with the badly botched chrome job. This has become my White Whale. I am determined to make this thing look good, using DIY methods, no matter how much time and money it takes, both of which I have already spent a considerable amount of.
View attachment 333772
Still slowly working on this project, jumping around from issue to issue. I have a front drum wheel that's missing the brake plate, so I bought the above plate from one of the big eBay bike parter-outers. Seller is in Canada, price was good but shipping was pretty high, it was a whole wheel, I messaged and said I'd pay the full price for just the plate if the shipping was cheap enough. So, I end up paying $133 USD total to my door for just the above brake plate, as shown.
That's an extremely good deal, BUT...

View attachment 333773
The black spray paint comes right off, even with modern useless paint stripper. BUT...
This hub has been CHROMED. But, that's not all. The chrome is a mess. It is completely covered with big and small pits. And, it is ROUGH. It looks like it was hit by a sand blaster, but I know it wasn't. Or, it looks like it was covered with another plating, like nickel or something, but I'm pretty sure that's not right either.
Whatever was done to it, it was done with the plate fully assembled. If you look at the full size image above, you can see that the vent cover was in place when whatever was done happened, and the cover protected the chrome under it, which is gorgeous.

View attachment 333774
Here's what I'm talking about. The chrome under the cover looks great. Everywhere else is rough and has big and small pits.

So, I want to get rid of the chrome. I Google it. Acid is popular, but the plate is a combo of mostly aluminum with some cast-in steel parts, there's no way to control what's going to dissolve.
The other popular method is sand blasting. I try it. NOTHING. I guess my blasting media isn't hard and sharp enough.
So, last resort, I go to a black emery buff compound on a sisal wheel. Results shown above, where I hit a corner right next to the vents. Deffinite improvement, but the emery is not nearly aggressive enough. It will never get the big pits out, and it will take forever to get all of the tiny pits out.

All I want is to remove the chrome, so I can get to the easily polished aluminum.

View attachment 333776
View attachment 333777
View attachment 333778
Some more images of test areas with the emery buff compound to give an idea what I'm dealing with. In the last pic, I was able to really bear down on the edge of the plate with the sisal wheel, and I got all the pits out, but the edge has started to round.

I'm open to suggestions. What's really needed, in my opinion, is a silicon carbide buffing compound, but they don't really make exactly what I want. SiC valve lapping compounds are generally too fine for bulk chrome removal and are a bit expensive. I've been looking at coarse SiC 60/90 grit, which isn't too expensive, mix it with axle grease, and use it on a brand-new, dedicated sisal wheel.
I did a test using a medium grit SiC sanding belt on an inconspicuous place on the plate, and it it ate through the chrome like butter. So, SiC will work, I just need it in a form that I can get into the nooks and crannys.

I'll wait for suggestions and comments, and then I'm buying SiC powder.
Lest you have forgotten, the above post will get you up to speed.

DSC06666l.JPG
This is the current state of the plate. The shiny areas are where I have tried a variety of polishing techniques and materials.

DSC05911.JPG
I was able to use my water-cooled silicon carbide belt setup on the flat wedge-shaped vent area.

DSC06661.jpg
Here, I have just started to get all the way down to the aluminum in areas, and you can see how still screwed-up and pitted the surface is. Anyways, started with 36 grit, then 60 grit, then 320, followed by black emery cake on a sisal wheel, then Tripoli on a stiff buffing wheel, and finally White Diamond polishing paste on a soft wheel. This area is now finished and looks perfect, which is important because it is one of the most prominent areas on the plate. Unfortunately, no other areas on the plate are suitable for the belt sander.

DSC06667.jpg
This little area was a test of my ability to polish in intricate places. It is also finished. Here, I did not get all the way down to the aluminum. Instead, I smoothed and polished the botched chrome using...

Untitled-4.jpg
... these Dremel wheels along with polishing paste.

Untitled-5.jpgUntitled-6.jpg
One of my experiments involved this stuff, which I bought on Amazon. First, I tried mixing it with grease to make a paste to be used with a sisal buffing wheel, but I wasn't real happy with that application method.

DSC06642.JPGDSC06658.jpg
Ended up making my own buffing cakes -- not an original idea, but I think maybe using silicon carbide is. This was fairly cost effective. Very easy to do and I encourage others to try it. Put a tin can directly on the stove, add one stick of paraffin (1/4 lb.), and a half pound of silicon carbide, mix and pour into a simple mold. You can't see it, but in the filled mold in the left hand picture there is a divider, meaning that mold yielded two bars. The 500 grit is fine enough to stay in suspension. The coarser grits will settle, so you want to wait until the stirred mixture just begins congealing before you pour it into the mold.
BTW -- I searched and searched, but no one seems to make silicon carbide cakes. I think there would be a huge demand for them, and that it is a million dollar idea.

QUICK TECH ALERT: Silicon Carbide is abbreviated SiC, which is how I will refer to it herein out. Aside from a couple of exotics, the only abrasive that is harder than SiC is diamond. SiC is also called carborundum.
Black emery -- the familiar black cakes you can buy everywhere -- is NOT SiC. It is mostly alumina oxide. The alumina oxide in black emery is also called corundum, which is really confusing because it sounds so similar to carborundum which it isn't.
Black emery is pretty hard, but SiC is considerably harder.

DSC06654.JPG
Having made my SiC cakes, I tested the 500 Grit (finest) on a quadrant of this alternator cover. It cut through the oxidation like butter and I was really excited, thinking I had made a breakthrough discovery.

DSC06664.jpgDSC06671.jpg
I set up a side-by-side comparison of SiC versus emery on a couple of badly oxidized valve covers. The end results speak for themselves, and were virtually identical. Polishing times were a little faster with the SiC, but more material was used. More testing will be done.

DSC06655.JPG
[In this pic the rod (top) and the vent cover (left) have already been polished with black emery.]
The other brake plate components had the same botched chrome coating. Clearly, the fully assembled brake plate had been somehow sprayed with metal, which I am calling chrome. This is perplexing. You would think that I am wrong and that it is actually some kind of powder coat, except it is hard as hell, is totally bonded on, and is extremely hard to remove. Remember, that in my previous post, I tried sandblasting it and got nowhere.

DSC06673.jpg
This is the back of the plate. Definitely, positively, 100% dipped in chrome. I have no idea what they subsequently did, or why, to the other side.

DSC06657.JPG
Before and after. The rod and cover were polished with black emery. Took a really, really long time and is still far from perfect.

DSC06670.jpg
The lever arms from the previous pictures. This time, I polished them using SiC. Still took a really, really long time, and once again far from perfect, but acceptable. Sadly, no amount of polishing will redeposit metal into the pits.

DSC06669a.jpg
Different lever arm, without whatever crap was done to my brake plate, which I thought would make a good test piece of the powers of SiC. I intend to coat the pins and the flaking area with beeswax for short term rust prevention. What they really need is replating or 2K clear coat.

DSC06672.jpg
That's about it for now. One last pic to show what I am dealing with. I've got a couple of new ideas -- waiting on some things I ordered from China to arrive.
 
Having made my SiC cakes, I tested the 500 Grit (finest) on a quadrant of this alternator cover. It cut through the oxidation like butter and I was really excited, thinking I had made a breakthrough discovery

That’s very interesting! I think maybe you’ve hit on something! 😃
 
That’s very interesting! I think maybe you’ve hit on something! 😃
My initial excitement was tempered after I did the side-by-side comparison of SiC versus emery on the valve covers. The SiC does seem to cut faster, but not as fast as I would have hoped for.

When I polish a typical weathered aluminum part, I would say that 80% of my time is spent on the initial cutting of corrosion and scratches. It is messy and not much fun compared to the later stages. I was hoping to significantly reduce the time spent on that initial cut. Further comparison testing needs to and will be done.

I did a little digging, and apparently SiC is two or three times more expensive than black emery, so I guess that's why it's not used in this way.
I would gladly pay three or four times more for a buffing cake that would reduce the cutting stage time in half. There is a more expensive form of SIC called Green Silicon Carbide which I think might work better than the black that I am using. I might see if I can get my hands on some of it.
 
Have you tried the nylon abrasive disks?
View attachment 359813
and or dico wheels?
Those are my go to for early rough cutting. The dico last forfreekingever but the mesh type are less likely to make pits into ripples.
Yes, tried both the nylon and dico wheels. Both were pretty ineffective. They polish the surface, but don't remove much material.

352243-ec1791fcddb8525d3a316039d26d0b0d.jpg
If you look at the full-size image of this pic, you will see the whole surface is textured -- that's what I'm trying to smooth, and it requires removing a lot of very hard material. The Scotch-Brite type of wheel that I used -- exactly like your pic -- hardly touched it. The dico did a little better, but would have taken forever to yield a truly smooth surface.
The big pits in the picture -- I am going to have to live with them. When I polished the vent area starting with the 36 grit SiC belt, I probably removed at least 1mm of material, maybe more, to completely get rid of the big pits. But, the belt can't be used anywhere else.
I'm pretty sure I know what I need, just waiting for it to arrive.
 
DSC06675.JPG
This is the dico knock-off that I tried. 4", 80 grit. Tried it chucked up in drill motor, but that was too awkward. So, I removed the shank, and modified it so I could mount it on my grinder motor arbor (bottom). Was promising enough that I ordered something that I think will work a lot better.

71z59m9DcRL._SL1500_.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/3M-3M-27605-Radial-Bristle-Brush/dp/B000N5CXZM
Ordered this. 6", 50 grit. Made by 3M, and relatively expensive. I found an open-box one on eBay that was a little cheaper.
Interestingly, on the Amazon link it states:
"For industrial/occupational use only. Not for consumer sale or use"

Got a couple of other goodies ordered too.
 
Last edited:
Have you tried the nylon abrasive disks?
View attachment 359813
and or dico wheels?
Those are my go to for early rough cutting. The dico last forfreekingever but the mesh type are less likely to make pits into ripples.
Which disco wheel do you recommend?
Looked on the internet and there’s a bunch of different kinds.
 
Which disco wheel do you recommend?
Looked on the internet and there’s a bunch of different kinds.

Dico (NO disco balls!) sells american and import wheels, the american made have thinner, more flexible bristles, they are better at getting into complex shaped aluminum parts. The blue is the most useful, orange for HEAVILY corroded parts. White too fine, I switch to a coarse hemp buffing wheel and black compound after blue, but I'm a "looks good for a daily rider" type polisher. . The 4" chucked in a VSR drill, gets picked the most often round here. Use with a spritzer bottle of mineral spirits or water to improve action, reduce dust. Let the brush do the work, don't jam it into the part, will improve wheel life. But they are the longest lasting form of abrasive cleaners I have found. Several of my blue wheels have been in service for years.
https://dicoproducts.com/collections/nyalox-brushes/products/wheel-brushes-nyalox-brushes
1769611465799.png
 
Last edited:
Cough....
how'd that fancy shmancy :cool: disc work?
The fancy wheel is sitting where I see it every day, but I still haven't found the inspiration to try it. Thanks for the nudge...

Have you tried the nylon abrasive disks?
View attachment 359813
and or dico wheels?
Those are my go to for early rough cutting. The dico last forfreekingever but the mesh type are less likely to make pits into ripples.
Reminder that I am dealing with chrome.

"Hard chrome plating is significantly harder than most types of steel, with a typical hardness of 65-70 HRC (Rockwell C) or higher, compared to 55-60 HRC for many hardened steels."
and:
"Chrome plating is roughly twice as hard as stainless steel, boasting an average hardness of 1060 HV (Vickers) compared to about 580 HV for heat-treated stainless steel."

What I need is something with the aggressiveness of a grinding wheel or SiC sanding belt, but with the flexibility of a buffing mop. If Fancy Wheel isn't it, I have an idea for creating my own.
 
Dico (NO disco balls!) sells american and import wheels, the american made have thinner, more flexible bristles, they are better at getting into complex shaped aluminum parts. The blue is the most useful, orange for HEAVILY corroded parts. White too fine, I switch to a coarse hemp buffing wheel and black compound after blue, but I'm a "looks good for a daily rider" type polisher. . The 4" chucked in a VSR drill, gets picked the most often round here. Use with a spritzer bottle of mineral spirits or water to improve action, reduce dust. Let the brush do the work, don't jam it into the part, will improve wheel life. But they are the longest lasting form of abrasive cleaners I have found. Several of my blue wheels have been in service for years.
https://dicoproducts.com/collections/nyalox-brushes/products/wheel-brushes-nyalox-brushes
View attachment 365201
Thanks Gary, I’m going to try them.
 
Reminder that I am dealing with chrome.

"Hard chrome plating is significantly harder than most types of steel, with a typical hardness of 65-70 HRC (Rockwell C) or higher, compared to 55-60 HRC for many hardened steels."
and:
"Chrome plating is roughly twice as hard as stainless steel, boasting an average hardness of 1060 HV (Vickers) compared to about 580 HV for heat-treated stainless steel."

What I need is something with the aggressiveness of a grinding wheel or SiC sanding belt, but with the flexibility of a buffing mop. If Fancy Wheel isn't it, I have an idea for creating my own.
https://www.xs650.com/threads/painting-tins-no-really.56271/post-836984
1769618541201.png

1769618554848.png
 
I've looked several times but haven't seen a way to strip chrome that doesn't dissolve the aluminum part. :confused:
As I recall, you can dissolve chrome from aluminum. The problem is that the brake plate has embedded steel parts, namely the brake shoe posts and the axle hole, and they'll get dissolved too.

A flap wheel is a great idea that I will keep in mind.
I'm compelled to note that fender chrome would be classified as decorative chrome, thinner and possibly not as hard as what I'm dealing with. Also, I believe Jim was scuffing, rather than taking it down to the steel.
But I like the flap wheel idea a lot.
I did try a flap disc in an angle grinder, but too big for the nooks, and barely flexible at all.
 
Yeah, I was just scuffin', but iirc, I burnt through the chrome in a few places. So it will remove decorative chrome.
As far as I know, the only difference tween industrial (hard) chrome and decorative chrome is the thickness?
I looked, and it appears you are correct.
A also discovered that hard chrome is usually applied directly to the base metal, without the intermediary copper and/or nickel layers used on decorative chrome. That would explain why I'm not seeing intermediary layers under the hard chrome on the brake plate (not sure if I would actually notice a nickel layer). I've never seen a copper layer under a chrome XS650 fender, I assume the same applies, a nickel layer that is not readily noticeable is probably used.

I looked into the cause of the pitting on my hard chromed brake plate. I am positive it occurred during the plating process. Hydrogen gas bubbles are produced on the surface of the piece being plated (the same hydrogen gas that those of us who have done are own nickel plating see). During hard chrome plating, the object is agitated to displace said bubbles. Also, the bath needs a surfactant (soap) to help keep the bubbles from sticking, and the bath and the piece need to be very clean. I believe that my brake plate pitting is likely rooted in a failure to account for the aforementioned. There are other causes of pitting during plating.
 
Yeah, I was just scuffin', but iirc, I burnt through the chrome in a few places. So it will remove decorative chrome.
As far as I know, the only difference tween industrial (hard) chrome and decorative chrome is the thickness?
Old school hexvalent chrome? I think there is a chemical diff. tween hard and deco now. Deco is trivalent Hard won't have the nickel and copper underlayers...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top