Post #17 above.
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Wiring problems after installed PMA
- Thread starter nordic moto garage
- Start date
the other 2 diagrams have the fuse in the same position, All the diagrams have the fuse after battery, before switch and Reg/rect
Sorry for being pedantic. But the ignition switch really should be after the fuse. As drawn in #17 the ignition switch is not fused. Myself, I think that's wrong as it's drawn. My XS650D has the fuse as close to the battery as feasible (built that way by the factory) so everything on the bike is protected by the 20amp fuse. Including the ignition switch.
Like this 36 is the fuse, 37 is the battery -
Maybe i am jut not understanding what your saying............I see the Fuse is close to the Battery/Capacitor before the ignition switch protecting the loom
The diagram in post 17. Imagine a fault in the ignition switch. The fuse is in the wrong place to protect it.
See the junction of the two red wires with key switch off to the right?
The fuse needs to be moved from above the join in the two wires to below it. Then the ignition switch is protected.
As it is drawn, it will work. But it's not really correct to have an non-fused ignition switch.
Refer to the screenshot I took from the Yamaha manual. The entire wiring system is protected by the fuse.
See the junction of the two red wires with key switch off to the right?
The fuse needs to be moved from above the join in the two wires to below it. Then the ignition switch is protected.
As it is drawn, it will work. But it's not really correct to have an non-fused ignition switch.
Refer to the screenshot I took from the Yamaha manual. The entire wiring system is protected by the fuse.
Your saying the fuse has to be between Regulator and the join
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I believe I understand your Point
Should a short circuit happen red -- key --brown before 10 A Fuses
there is no fuse operating ---open the circuit .. if i get this right
Should a short circuit happen red -- key --brown before 10 A Fuses
there is no fuse operating ---open the circuit .. if i get this right
All the diagrams have the fuse close to the battery before the key/ignition switch......but the regulator is powered off a split in the red wire after the fuse and before the switch.
No the switch is not protected from the regulator.
No the switch is not protected from the regulator.
Yes.
Which means that if a short develops in the key switch, the PMA will keep pushing current into the fault. Something has to give. Probably the red wire but it wouldn’t be pretty.
Correct.
Well tell this to MamaYamaha because all of her diagrams have the fuse between the battery on the Red wire before it splits to the ignition and rectifier.
I understand what your saying. If the diagram in post 17 is wrong, (or constructed), so are the other diagrams before it, except they are true to how the bike looms are made.
Would a PMA be more prone to cause a fault than the Factory setup, Points, TCI
I understand what your saying. If the diagram in post 17 is wrong, (or constructed), so are the other diagrams before it, except they are true to how the bike looms are made.
Would a PMA be more prone to cause a fault than the Factory setup, Points, TCI
To be fully transparent, I don't have anything at all to say beyond the lower diagram in post 17 being wrong from a safety perspective. It will work but it won't be as safe as it could be.
For Yamaha's original design, I don't have anything to say. I posted a screenshot of part of the wiring diagram for a 1977 bike. All components downstream of the fuse are protected. Good job too, because it's the only fuse on the entire bike. On a standard XS650 the green wire (rotor excitation) would lose power if the fuse blew. And so would everything else on the bike. So the engine stops
Regarding your final point - As the wiring in post 17 is shown I would say yes.
Generally in the industry using PMA, the answer is no. There's millions and millions of perfectly safe systems out there. Because (unlike in post 17) the industry protects the bike properly against faults with a fuse that takes the entire electrical system out and the engine shuts down.
Maybe It also have the aspect where the 10 A Fuses are located ..In real world if they are immediately behind the Key
And if the key ON / OFF ..is mounted on a rubber or other insulating block .maybe it is solved
perhaps that 10 moved upstream before Brake Switch also
Interesting Analysis --- Keep On
Edit ..In my view it is very rare that the wiring in itself shorts out .The connectors and switches and Key lock fuse holders 95 % of the time
having said that it does happen.
And if the key ON / OFF ..is mounted on a rubber or other insulating block .maybe it is solved
perhaps that 10 moved upstream before Brake Switch also
Interesting Analysis --- Keep On
Edit ..In my view it is very rare that the wiring in itself shorts out .The connectors and switches and Key lock fuse holders 95 % of the time
having said that it does happen.
Correct. Brake switch is also not protected against a fault in the lower diagram post #17.
I must be really fucking dumb. All the diagrams + the simplified diagram are protected by the 20amp fuse (directly) on the red wire exiting either the battery or capacitor. That is what i see..............after the fuse, the red wire splits to both the Recitfier or Reg/Rect, and the ignition switch
No you are not Dumb . If I am getting this right and I understand the Narrative + We are talking about the same thing ... If you think of i as the garden hose the Up and Down Inlet and Outlet which works with DC
High voltage to lower
The faucet and the outlet Nozzle to flower bench
If I am right here the Power plant the Faucet is the alternator it is the creator
it sends the produced power to the Regulator that governs the output like the Knob on the garden faucet you turn to change the flow
it is done automatically but it is governed there in the regulator
Then when it is regulated Up to Down the Regulator sends it out on red to key and to the brown
The circuit downstream has resistance :Should the garden hose get a hole before the outlet the water " Escapes " leak
Should the wires red and brown gets damaged before the 10 A Fuses
Then there is no fuse and the damaged wire can short on the frame and so The electricity " Escapes " as the hole in the garden hose
water escapes
Whether or not all water escapes through the hole depend on the size of the Hole
As how much electric power escapes depend how damaged the wire is.
Dont know on the PMA but on other system the leak --Power drop would mean the Regulator wants to increase the output
If not a big short it can fry things
In the fork there the current choses the leg that has the lowest resistance .aka the Short Cut / Hole in the Hose
No high Ampere will go to the 20 A Fuse and it wont open
If you installed the PMA rectifier/regulator, you do not need the OEM/Yamaha regulator (or rectifier). You are replacing them with the PMA kit.
Thanks for the video timestamp, perfect. If you are using that relay or regulator, remove them.
If you are REPLACING the stock/OEM/Yamaha regulator and rectifier, you remove the old ones and install the PMA version. Makes sense?...is connected to the the capacitor.
J) On the XS2 there was 1 relay and 1 voltage regulator (that looks almost identical as the relay, just with a green thing on it) and a regulator. Tcbros.com have a video where they say you can get rid of the relay and regulator. I'm curious, can I remove the relay and the voltage regulator, or have I removed the wrong part since I'm left with a green and black cable that did go to the old XS2 alternator?
K) seems to be the same issue as J) and H).
You removed the old alternator which had an excitation coil. That coil is gone now. It was powered by the green and black wires. Those need to be gone now. The regulator (with the green and black wires) was also powered by the brown wire. That regulator needs to be removed now. You'll be left with the brown wire. As I mentioned in my G) answer, the brown wire can be either cut off at the coils or safely tucked away (by the coils under the tank?) for future use. It is your switched ignition power.
The brown wire will have power only with the ignition switch on and the stop switch on (or more logically in "run" position).
