XS1B Engine Teardown

In for a penny...
I just ordered the box from Ebay.
I figure worst case, I can resell it there and get my money back.

We'll get there.
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Just measured and the threaded portion of the bore is exactly .053" larger than the bore. Divide that in half and I get a bush that has a wall thickness of .0265"... about the thickness of a fat credit card.
It would have to be aluminum. I thought of steel, but with the aluminum rocker box expanding much faster than steel, the bush wouldn't stay tight.
I think this box is well and truly fucked.
Would it be possible to bore it true and round, then make an oversize rocker shaft. Then bore the rocker arm to suit?

I hate the thought of that being scrap!
 
Would it be possible to bore it true and round, then make an oversize rocker shaft. Then bore the rocker arm to suit?
A nice idea! Or, perhaps you could bore only the outside boss and machine a custom "stepped" rocker shaft, thereby keeping the stock rocker arm? Just a thought...
 
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Would it be possible to bore it true and round, then make an oversize rocker shaft. Then bore the rocker arm to suit?

I hate the thought of that being scrap!
I, and probably you too, had the exact same idea. But, a couple of sticking points in my opinion, the biggest being that the oversize rocker shaft would cost more in time or money (depending on who makes it) than a used eBay rocker box. Just my thought, I don't know much about this kind of stuff.

I too hate the thought of that being scrapped.

The rocker shaft itself does not move, it is just sort of pressed in, correct? If that's the case, how about coating the damaged rocker shaft bore with J-B Weld, and then boring it back to spec? My thought being that J-B Weld would be strong enough for a non-moving situation that doesn't get excessively hot. Maybe bore it out that credit card thickness you mentioned before, before you apply the J-B Weld, so that the J-B Weld has some thickness, and is not a "starved" bond.
 
A nice idea! Or, perhaps you could bore only the outside boss and machine a custom "stepped" rocker shaft, thereby keeping the stock rocker arm? Just a thought...
Perfectly possible providing it's only the outer bore that's out of tolerance. I suspect not, but I'm several thousand miles away.
 
While avoiding my own projects this morning.... :unsure:
Some shots of this area from a random head in the shed.
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Yeah it's a mill job. Grind a "trepanning" bit for the boring bar. two sleeves cut to length, prolly don't need the collar here.
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Sleeve bearing 15mm ID 17mmOD
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-sl...3p.ds&gad_source=7&gad_campaignid=23764376053

There's prolly some unworn bore at the bottom of that hole and just inboard of the threads to index from.
Nice that this head cover is easily machined aluminum.
Install sleeves with https://loctiteadhesive.com/retaining-compound/.
Use a longer 15mm shaft (drill bit) and a rocker to hold the sleeves aligned while the bearing retainer sets. Done. ;)
 
@Its been a long time , @Wagner73
Boring and installing a oversize shaft is probably the most sound solution. Unfortunately, I lack the means.. I don't have a mill and the new shaft and bored out rocker would most likely need heat treating after. So to farm that out would be too expensive.

@DogBunny
Yes, the shaft is a press fit and doesn't (shouldn't) rotate.
It's the bearing force of the cam and valve spring (a fulcrum) that literally forced the bore out of round, allowing for the wobble.
I don't think J B Weld has enough compressive strength to stand up for any length of time. That and the fact that the shaft and bore make up the oil passageway to the rocker... and eventually the cam. The JB stands a good chance of blocking that passageway.

Thanks for the pics, Gary.

I'll just let this marinade 'till the Ebay box shows up and go from there.
 
Sleeve bearing 15mm ID 17mmOD
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-sl...3p.ds&gad_source=7&gad_campaignid=23764376053

There's prolly some unworn bore at the bottom of that hole and just inboard of the threads to index from.
Nice that this head cover is easily machined aluminum.
Install sleeves with https://loctiteadhesive.com/retaining-compound/.
Use a longer 15mm shaft (drill bit) and a rocker to hold the sleeves aligned while the bearing retainer sets. Done. ;)
That looks to have promise also.
 
and the bore is fubar all the way to the outside?

After looking again, I think the outside bore is good. There's a very, very slight elongation towards the inside, but prolly 80% solid. So here's an idea.... kind of a combination of all of the above.

Use one of the split bushes Gary linked to ('cept without the PTFE) and press that in with some J B Weld. That way the bush will be bonded to the aluminum. So no worry about bearing strength of the JB Weld because the load will be spread across a steel bushing. Since I have extra shaft's :rolleyes: , I can cut one down to a snug fit in the bush and use that to 1, drive the bush home and 2, it will act to keep the bush centered and square in the box as the JB cures.

Once that's set up a day or 3, use a long drill bit to cross drill out the bushing and excess JB and that'll restore the oil passage.

Chuck the shaft up in the lathe and use a tool post grinder to SLOWLY** take the inside down to an interference fit in the bush.

Put it all back together and Bob's your uncle.

Thoughts?!?

** heat is the enemy here. Sloooow with big pauses 'tween passes.
 
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Did some measuring...

Where the shoulder was created in the bore to the end of the bore is .1295".... call it an 1/8"
The total bore length is .369"
So, expressed as a percentage, there's still 35% of the bore that's good, virgin metal.
Considerin' we're replacing aluminum with steel, I think that's enough metal to metal.
 
Sounds good but personally I wouldn't use anything like JB Weld in there. It's going to break up with the cyclical load. I'd be looking for a good metal to metal fit between the bush and the bore. My 2 cents. Good luck with it.
Agreed. JB Weld needs at least 2mm thickness to be effective. Henkel Loctite 600 series cylindrical retainer compounds would be a better choice.
 
After looking again, I think the outside bore is good. There's a very, very slight elongation towards the inside, but prolly 80% solid. So here's an idea.... kind of a combination of all of the above.

Use one of the split bushes Gary linked to ('cept without the PTFE) and press that in with some J B Weld. That way the bush will be bonded to the aluminum. So no worry about bearing strength of the JB Weld because the load will be spread across a steel bushing. Since I have extra shaft's :rolleyes: , I can cut one down to a snug fit in the bush and use that to 1, drive the bush home and 2, it will act to keep the bush centered and square in the box as the JB cures.

Once that's set up a day or 3, use a long drill bit to cross drill out the bushing and excess JB and that'll restore the oil passage.

Chuck the shaft up in the lathe and use a tool post grinder to SLOWLY** take the inside down to an interference fit in the bush.

Put it all back together and Bob's your uncle.

Thoughts?!?

** heat is the enemy here. Sloooow with big pauses 'tween passes.
I think I'm missing somethinge here...how are you planning to bore the rocker shaft bore to be able to insert the bushing... or is the bushing OD the same nominal dimension as the shaft bore ID? From the dimensions shown, it appears that the bushing ID and the shaft OD are both 15mm (nominal). If that's the case, why does a shaft need to be turned down?

Maybe I'm not seeing the details correctly here, but in any case, I would not make the rocker shaft an interference fit in the bushing; a zero-clearance fit, yes, but not interference.

Sounds like quite an undertaking...hope it works out! Good luck!
 
Been a day or three. Warning, big long slog ahead. Go grab a cuppa...

I've given up on finding a machine shop to deal with this recalcitrant rocker box. I even drove 50 friggin' miles to a place up in St Jo, only to have 'em hem and haw... and finally say "well maybe 4- 500 bucks... hard to say." Funny, weren't hard at all for me to say no.

So while I was busy doing Sue's basement buildout, I pondered... then pondered some more.... from somewhere deep down in the 72 yr old grey matter a plan started takin' shape... several, actually.

First thing I need to do was find out if me an' Mr Atlas were on the same page when it comes to making small-ish bushings. Happy to report we are. Used some 6061T6 solid, which has a fair bit more bearing strength than your average casting ally, and turned to 14.5mm ID and 17.5mm OD.

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So here's the plan... Take the oval shaped 15mm hole in the box and take it out to 17mm, then press in the bushings and ream to 15mm. I decided against buying steel bushing for 2 reasons. Main reason is the expansion rate of the aluminum box vs the much slower rate of the steel bush. There's a real danger of the bush getting loose enough to spin if the box expands to much too fast... in which case we are right back at totally screwed. Best to stick with like materials.

Second, buying a bush takes away my flexibility.... ID and OD are set in stone steel. Making my own allows me to first measure the hole and then turn a bush to fit it. Seems... at least in my mind, that turning a bush to fit a hole will be much easier than drilling a hole to match the bush. If I get the hole just ever so slightly too big, I'm fucked. On the other hand, if I turn a bush down too small, I shitcan it and start over.

Back to the plan...
Dug in the scrap and found some plate that's about 10ga ( just over an eighth inch thick). Cut 4 pieces around 6X10" Welded two of 'em together.

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Took those, clamped a third sheet on 'em and cut holes at the corners.

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Ran 3/8" bolts up through the bottom and tightened in place.

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Enlarged the holes slightly on the upper sheet so I had a little wiggle room for positioning.

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Underneath the bottom I welded on some angle and runners so it'll mount and slide on the lathe ways.

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The double angled piece by my thumb is what locks it to the ways. I can adjust the tension on it to remove any play and still allow it to slide. I also added a simplified version of gibs at the 4 corners to be able to remove any and all play. Spoiler alert... worked a treat! :smoke:

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Took the 4th sheet, cut the corners off and drilled 6 holes through it and the 3rd sheet.

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There's 6 holes because I wanted to be able to cut both holes on one side if the need arises.... only 4 will be used for any given combination. To get the rocker box (remember that thing? ;) ) to set square on the top plate, I tuned 4 1.5" stand-off bushings.

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Making all the holes a little on the loose side now allows me full freedom of movement in space. I can adjust for up/down, tilt fore/aft, tilt left/right and left/right of the lathe centerline.

Next I took 3 of the 4 end caps , ground 'em flat and welded what was left of the screwdriver slot closed.

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Faced 'em down flat and drilled a dimple in 2 of 'em. As a guess, the dimple is about 5 thou" across.

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I cut 2 flats on 'em to get a wrench on. These screw back into place on the box. Then I can chuck dead centers up in both the chuck and tailstock.

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I took the 3rd cap and drilled and tapped for a 1/4" 20 bolt.

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Found a bolt about 6" long, cut the head off and screwed it into the cap.

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So here's how it all works...

First I set the fixture (I'll call it that for lack of a better word) on the lathe then adjust the lock and gibs until there no free play in any axis except sliding back and forth.
Then I screw the dimpled caps place, install dead centers on both ends and then spend a shitload of time getting getting the dead centers and box end cap dimples to fall exactly in the same place. Remember I said the dimples are about .005" across? That means as long as the centers fall inside the dimples, my misalignment is less than 5 thou".... that is more than close enough for this task.

After that I remove the dimpled caps and screw the cap/bolt in the starboard side and chuck that up in the tailstock. Now I can use the tailstock wheel to slide my whole contraption back and forth across the bed.

You can see in the next pic that I tried a 17mm end mill first. The astute among you will also notice that's not an XS1B rocker box. Ya din't think I'd try the first cut on that did ya? :rolleyes:
I picked up two 17mm bits cause they're Chinese and dirt cheap. Neither made a good hole.... which is what you expect for bits that cost $6.99 each. I didn't measure, but my 17mm ream would just slide in and out of the holes... they cut way too big.

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I had also picked up a 16.5mm drill bit. The problem with it was the point. It has to be flat and not pointed so it could cut all the way to the bottom of the hole. No worries, disc sander made quick work of the point.

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And the winner is..... the drill bit. Cut a nice clean 16.5mm hole purty as you please.


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You can also see in the pic above that I'd already driven the ball bearing out of the oil passage. Once the bushing's in place, I'll need to re-drill that passageway.

Next I needed to finish the hole out to 17mm with the ream. Same problem with the ream, it won't reach all the way to the bottom of the hole. Gave it the same treatment as the drill bit.

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And lo and behold, we now have a finished 17mm hole ready for a bushing.

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I wasn't gonna write this post until it was completely done, but I've come here, hat in hand to ask a question of you machinist guru's out there. The hole is exactly 16.99mm. So what OD size do you guys want to see on the bushing for a "press fit?" I asked google and AI and got different answers. What do you folk that do this for a living recommend??

Yeah.... maybe not done with this box yet, but making and pressing in bushings is well within my wheelhouse. I'm confident the rest will go pretty smoothly.

Never say die. :cheers:
 
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