Yet another charging thread :)

Lou_TX

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Greetings,

I am new to this place and very happy that it exists. Very informative, especially when it comes to the charging system and differences between years.

This is my first thread here (sorry, could not find the New Member section) and it should be a quick success story.
I saved a 1975 XS650 from the crusher. Made the owner an offer he could not refuse (no, he does not own any horses so I had to use cash, sorry) and started working on her 4 weeks ago. She needed a lot of work but well worth it. Yes, it's a 50-y/o bike where all the POs "fixed" things their own way which I had to "unfix" but again, well worth it.

Now that she's running and I rewired the whole motorcycle, I can finally test the charging system. It seems that the voltage regulator is not supplying power to the Field Excitation coil (bad regulator?) and now I am starting to understand why they wired the FE lead to the brake light. Since the regulator was not doing its job, let the bike charge at full capacity at deceleration only (when a little more drag on the motor isn't undesired).

I read a lot here about the regulators and their wiring style for pre-1980 and later builds. Thank you very much, great information, I enjoyed it.
And in the process of searching for a new voltage regulator, I decided that buying the old style (pre-1980) regulator would cost a lot more and there's no need to do it the old way anyway.
So I decided to switch to the newer brush configuration (not grounded) and install a cheaper 1980+ voltage regulator which can then supply power to the FE coil and also drive the low side for power generation from the stator.

I will jump on my other bike and go to our local hardware store to pick up some nylon screws (any excuse to ride, right?) and hopefully have fully floating brushes this afternoon.

At this point, I guess I have only one question: what is the pin-out of the voltage regulator for the 1980+ bikes? It is a flat 2-row 8-pin connector and I have no documentation for that. (attaching a picture)
Wire colors:
3 x white - good assumption is 3 phases from the stator
1 black - I assume ground
1 red - I assume battery
1 green - I assume FE coil low side
1 brown - I assume FE coil high side and ignition power

Those are all assumptions. I will need to supply ignition power to the regulator and I do not know which wire that would be (brown?).
Again, all assumptions. I would like to confirm before I purchase so that I can plan on wiring it up properly.

Thank you in advance for any good advice.
Lou
 

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I believe keeping the pre 80 Alternator setup and buying separate rectifier and regulators is one way forward.
Well proven .. There are numerous Auto regulators that is solid . And inexpensive

The one on the picture is a Combo
And it fries the regulator part instantly if connected wrong.
Please look here on the forum and come back with info if the Alternator is a pre 80 and working
 
I believe keeping the pre 80 Alternator setup and buying separate rectifier and regulators is one way forward.
Well proven .. There are numerous Auto regulators that is solid . And inexpensive

The one on the picture is a Combo
And it fries the regulator part instantly if connected wrong.
Please look here on the forum and come back with info if the Alternator is a pre 80 and working
I reckon that's sound advice.
 
I believe keeping the pre 80 Alternator setup and buying separate rectifier and regulators is one way forward.
Well proven .. There are numerous Auto regulators that is solid . And inexpensive

The one on the picture is a Combo
And it fries the regulator part instantly if connected wrong.
Please look here on the forum and come back with info if the Alternator is a pre 80 and working
Yes, this is a 1975 model bike and the alternator appears stock.
I understand that the newer regulator would fry if connected to the old FE coil which is why I floated the coil (as per my thread. though kinda long-winded, sorry).
<rant warning="low">And having quietly grounded load with a wire leading to it can wreak havoc on electrical minds. If it's grounded, don't run a ground wire. If you run a ground wire, don't ground it at the mounting point. Simple as that. Confusing wiring is my pet peeve. Make it clear and there will be no problems and no fried regulators. </rant>
You mentioned pre-80 auto regulators that are inexpensive. Would you please be so kind to share a link? I could not find anything prices lower than the 1980+ regulators.
 
Greetings,

I am new to this place and very happy that it exists. Very informative, especially when it comes to the charging system and differences between years.

This is my first thread here (sorry, could not find the New Member section) and it should be a quick success story.
I saved a 1975 XS650 from the crusher. Made the owner an offer he could not refuse (no, he does not own any horses so I had to use cash, sorry) and started working on her 4 weeks ago. She needed a lot of work but well worth it. Yes, it's a 50-y/o bike where all the POs "fixed" things their own way which I had to "unfix" but again, well worth it.

Now that she's running and I rewired the whole motorcycle, I can finally test the charging system. It seems that the voltage regulator is not supplying power to the Field Excitation coil (bad regulator?) and now I am starting to understand why they wired the FE lead to the brake light. Since the regulator was not doing its job, let the bike charge at full capacity at deceleration only (when a little more drag on the motor isn't undesired).

I read a lot here about the regulators and their wiring style for pre-1980 and later builds. Thank you very much, great information, I enjoyed it.
And in the process of searching for a new voltage regulator, I decided that buying the old style (pre-1980) regulator would cost a lot more and there's no need to do it the old way anyway.
So I decided to switch to the newer brush configuration (not grounded) and install a cheaper 1980+ voltage regulator which can then supply power to the FE coil and also drive the low side for power generation from the stator.

I will jump on my other bike and go to our local hardware store to pick up some nylon screws (any excuse to ride, right?) and hopefully have fully floating brushes this afternoon.

At this point, I guess I have only one question: what is the pin-out of the voltage regulator for the 1980+ bikes? It is a flat 2-row 8-pin connector and I have no documentation for that. (attaching a picture)
Wire colors:
3 x white - good assumption is 3 phases from the stator
1 black - I assume ground
1 red - I assume battery
1 green - I assume FE coil low side
1 brown - I assume FE coil high side and ignition power

Those are all assumptions. I will need to supply ignition power to the regulator and I do not know which wire that would be (brown?).
Again, all assumptions. I would like to confirm before I purchase so that I can plan on wiring it up properly.

Thank you in advance for any good advice.
Lou
I think you have it correct
latechargingdiagram.JPG


reg rec checks.jpg


But... there's always a but LOL
unless you sprang for a high dollar genuine Shindowa regulator the odds of the 'replacement chinese regulator lasting very long are not good. They tend to fail in "full charge mode" which is better than no charge I guess but not by much. In any case adding a digital voltmeter where you can see it is a no-brainer. I like to use a handlebar mount USB port/ volt meter
1714240097770.png

that has a on off switch and wire it direct to the battery handy for phone charging and checking battery state of charge in the off season.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3645737245...uid=tW1migcmQPO&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Carry on!
Oh we MUST see pictures of your bike!
 
i am in Europe so we have other more common here

https://www.startmotor.se/produkt/8...MIgcL96_rihQMVkwCiAx3VmwMbEAQYBCABEgKXQPD_BwE

I am pretty sure you can buy a combo for both the pre 80 and post 80
Plug and play no need for Plastic screws

There is write ups
perhaps there Please read there

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/



And that pretty much covers it. Here's a list of some VR115 substitutes from other manufacturers, same regulator just under a different part number .....

GRX-528 Motorcraft (Ford)
VR 1010 NAPA Echlin
VR727 Wells
1V1033 Airtex
C622 AC Delco
VR-1760 Ace
VR291 GP Sorensen
R292 BWD
KVR179 Borg Warner
 
I think you have it correct
View attachment 324206
That's the same diagram I found a few minutes ago in another thread. Thank you for the confirmation, appreciate it.

But... there's always a but LOL
unless you sprang for a high dollar genuine Shindowa regulator the odds of the 'replacement chinese regulator lasting very long are not good. They tend to fail in "full charge mode" which is better than no charge I guess but not by much. In any case adding a digital voltmeter where you can see it is a no-brainer. I like to use a handlebar mount USB port/ volt meter that has a on off switch and wire it direct to the battery handy for phone charging and checking battery state of charge in the off season.
My new digital instrument cluster (speedometer, tachometer, fuel gauge, indicator lights etc) contains also a battery meter which I will definitely be checking while riding.
Extra tidbit: I put an analog meter on my daily commuter to see system voltage and I also made a 13V threshold driver that turns on a battery light below 13V. I like warning lights. They free up my time during frequent instrument scan.

Oh we MUST see pictures of your bike!
I will oblige later, I'd rather be in the shop working right now to get her running, inspected and registered so that I can ride her.
 
Last edited:
All good information, thank you, sir. If I have to go that route, I'll be looking into the VR115. ($40 in the US, compared to $25 for the post-1980 regulator)
Please come back .if you go that way
Here in Europe a regulator can be found in the $ 10 --$ 20 Range
The rectifier can be good and a pre 80 Alternator .. No nylon Screws
Just to be clear my English maybe is not good enough
The part in the post #1 is actually
2 functional units -- inside
1 Rectifier
1 Regulator

The Regulator and Rotor are the most likely to have problems
 
Please come back .if you go that way
Here in Europe a regulator can be found in the $ 10 --$ 20 Range
The rectifier can be good and a pre 80 Alternator .. No nylon Screws
Just to be clear my English maybe is not good enough
The part in the post #1 is actually
2 functional units -- inside
1 Rectifier
1 Regulator

The Regulator and Rotor are the most likely to have problems
Your English is fine. Better than most native speakers' abilities. :)
I understand the 2 functional units in 1. I don't really care to keep the bike original (which is getting harder every year) so a modern solid state regulator/rectifier works for me, I prefer simplicity. I am slimming the bike down for a custom build anyway.
New regulator/rectifier will be arriving on Monday, I will post an update.
For now, if I want to charge the battery, I have to hook up the FE coil positive wire to the ignition wire. :)
 
The hook up a wire to get it to charge?
If you hang around long enough you'll get that I'm a bit crazy. :laugh2:
Got those pics yet???? :sneaky:
Rgr.
That's one way to get it to charge. And I am too lazy to go to the other garage to grab the charger so I just hook up the FE coil and it charges sufficiently in a few minutes of idling while I am working on other things on the engine.
Pictures will come soon, patience. (I know, I know, it's hard, LOL)
 
Got those pics yet???? :sneaky:
Hypothetically speaking, if one had some random pictures of work progress on one's bike, where would you prefer one to post them? Here? Start a new thread? In the "What have you done ..." thread? #AskingForAFriend
 
All are good but here is fine, Hypothetically speaking.
I'll add the lets see your XS thread
But maybe best is just start a build thread. Very popular, what I have done MANY times (I could stop anytime but why would I want too?)
 
All are good but here is fine, Hypothetically speaking.
I'll add the lets see your XS thread
But maybe best is just start a build thread. Very popular, what I have done MANY times (I could stop anytime but why would I want too?)
I saw your project "madness" thread. That's a lot of work. And only in a 1.5 month's time. You work fast.
I've been at it for about a month now, trying to fix everything that's broken and finding more things that are broken. LOL
Plus waiting on parts also slips the schedule. She was supposed to be ready for safety inspection on Monday. But the clutch cable snapped last night so she won't be. At least not until Wed when the cable arrives. It's always something. Delays delays delays.
I'll start my own thread.
But at least one picture to satisfy your curiosity, here's the brush assembly all floating with nylon screws. I ohmed it out and powered it on. Ops check good! đź‘Ť
 

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Just one small thing - the wires on your brushes are routed incorrectly, they should wrap around the outside of the brush. You can see the little slot provided in the brush holders for the wire to route through.
 
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