Yet another dirty rusty fuel tank.

[Grewth]

I've got the same old problem, rust and debris inside the fuel tank which inevitably defeats every in line fuel filter I've fitted within a mile or two.
Result is repeatedly blocked pilot jets in the carbs
So I've either got to get the inside of the tank chemically clean, or fix everything down with a slosh tank liner.
I've bought a lot of tanks with a failed liner floating around in bits, so my instinct is to ignore all the claims and promises, and get the tank cleared out properly.
I think I read years ago that Yamaha used to sell a magical tank cleaner that worked wonders.
Any modern equivalent ?

 

[Jim]

I've had good luck with both hydrochloric acid and phosphoric acid.

Hydro in at least a 28% solution will do the job in under an hour, is nasty shit that'll take your breath away/burn your lungs if you get a whiff. Also goes by the name muriatic acid.

Phospho will take about 3 days... give or take. Much more user friendly... no nasty habits. Ospho and the Rustolium stuff are majority Phosphoric acid.

 

[Its been a long time]

I've got the same old problem, rust and debris inside the fuel tank which inevitably defeats every in line fuel filter I've fitted within a mile or two.
Result is repeatedly blocked pilot jets in the carbs
So I've either got to get the inside of the tank chemically clean, or fix everything down with a slosh tank liner.
I've bought a lot of tanks with a failed liner floating around in bits, so my instinct is to ignore all the claims and promises, and get the tank cleared out properly.
I think I read years ago that Yamaha used to sell a magical tank cleaner that worked wonders.
Any modern equivalent ?

Perhaps it helps you. I use a guy called Jim Boulby to clean and seal my fuel tanks.

He uses a product called Flowliner a phenol epoxy resin which definitely works if applied properly. Since cleaning and lining properly is a one shot job I prefer Jim to do them for me.

Jim has done tanks for me and has done many hundreds of tanks. He can be found on Facebook as Fuel Tank Man. HTH.

 

[Grewth]

Perhaps it helps you. I use a guy called Jim Boulby to clean and seal my fuel tanks.

He uses a product called Flowliner a phenol epoxy resin which definitely works if applied properly. Since cleaning and lining properly is a one shot job I prefer Jim to do them for me.

Jim has done tanks for me and has done many hundreds of tanks. He can be found on Facebook as Fuel Tank Man. HTH.

Thanks for that !
I've often wondered what the secret is to getting a tank liner that actually lasts.
This guy obviously knows the secret but it's probably in his best interests to keep it to himself.

 

[Its been a long time]

Thanks for that !
I've often wondered what the secret is to getting a tank liner that actually lasts.
This guy obviously knows the secret but it's probably in his best interests to keep it to himself.

I think it's basically two things. Firstly preparation is 95% of the job. Secondly using the right product.

As far as I have managed to work out Flowliner is the one that works. (Provided the preparation is good enough).

Flowliner seems to be, from what I can deduce, a commercial tank lining product packaged and sold in smaller quantities for automotive tank sealing. If you look at the commercial coatings used in industrial applications, it seems to me Flowliner is similar or the same stuff.

The stuff to look at is Phenol Novolac Epoxy resins. You'll see they're available from the big guys in commercial coatings. As far as I can see this stuff is impervious for up to 100% ethanol, which these days is obviously important.

I have used Jim for my tanks for the last four years now. For what he charges, I won't take the risk of myself doing it and having a failed coating.

Hope that helps. Jim is based near Newark IIRC.

 

[Grewth]

Hope that helps. Jim is based near Newark IIRC.

Looks like I'll be mailing it to him.
I used to go to the Newark Autojumbles, it's a good distance from where I live.
Excluding the carriage, what would be a sort of ball park figure for sealing a tank ?
It's a 650 Special BTW, not very large.

 

[Its been a long time]

Looks like I'll be mailing it to him.
I used to go to the Newark Autojumbles, it's a good distance from where I live.
Excluding the carriage, what would be a sort of ball park figure for sealing a tank ?
It's a 650 Special BTW, not very large.

I have both taken tanks and sent them over by courier. You'll have to ask him how much he'll charge for a 650 Special tank. I would guess less than £200-ish, but stuff like this has gone through the roof lately as you know. So that's a guess.

What I kind of worked out was the cost of me cleaning and doing the preparation plus the cost of the Flowliner. The difference between that and what Jim charged me was a feeling for how much risk I was willing to take doing it myself. My gut feel has been to let him do it.

I don't especially want to give my real contact details here but if you want me to introduce you to Jim, I'm happy to do so, contact me by PM.

 

[gggGary]

either got to get the inside of the tank chemically clean, or fix everything down with a slosh tank liner.

two things. Firstly preparation is 95% of the job. Secondly using the right product.

TRUTH!
I used acetone, sheet metal screws, a tank turner

and evaporust with heat, rinse water, more acetone, repeat, POR15 slosh liner, THEN lots of heat/sun curing time before adding gas.
DIY is a long messy involved multi step process. Just completed two, saving the external paint that was on them, I'm still working out details. One had a failed liner that, thank the stars, dissolved in acetone. The other was (just) very rusty inside. Prolly three weeks of off and on outdoor/ open shed, messy, stinky loud, work.
I've also used electrolysis several times on other tanks.
I have another with a failed liner that won't dissolve, grr.
I only use a liner if I'm concerned about integrity of the tank seams due to rust. Otherwise I clean and call it good.

 

[40north]

nice machine! kudos!

 

[Grewth]

I have both taken tanks and sent them over by courier. You'll have to ask him how much he'll charge for a 650 Special tank. I would guess less than £200-ish, but stuff like this has gone through the roof lately as you know. So that's a guess.

Now we get into the thing that accountants call "opportunity cost"
That tank still has the original Yamaha factory paint, but with quite a few dings, and rusty scratches.
Now I do have another tank, which is almost perfectly clean on the inside, but has been stripped back to bare metal on the outside.
I could put that £200 (ish) towards the cost of a new paint job on that tank, and a pair of side panels.
That would still leave me the maroon factory paint tank to possibly sell on to some lucky new owner

 

[Its been a long time]

Now we get into the thing that accountants call "opportunity cost"
That tank still has the original Yamaha factory paint, but with quite a few dings, and rusty scratches.
Now I do have another tank, which is almost perfectly clean on the inside, but has been stripped back to bare metal on the outside.
I could put that £200 (ish) towards the cost of a new paint job on that tank, and a pair of side panels.
That would still leave me the maroon factory paint tank to possibly sell on to some lucky new owner

Entirely up to you, of course.

What I was proposing, I don't think there's much risk to original paint.

The tanks I have had refurbished have suffered zero external damage.

The first tank I had done was in fact irreplaceable hand laid composite. Had original 30 year old paint and graphics. It was completed with no trace externally that it had been worked on. Still going fine after four years.

 

[40north]

Me squirt rattle can flatblack an' call it gud.
I have low standards.

 

[HamishTHaggis]

I have successfully cleaned and sealed a couple of tanks (1979 and 1980 original metal) which are so far holding up great (2.5 years of use, no sign of deterioration on the linings). One bike is a year-round daily here in DC, the other is ridden much more rarely, averaging once a month or thereabouts. I think the comment above about preparation being the key was spot on. I used the rustoleum product to clean both (each tank got approximately 72 hours soak time if I am recalling correctly) and then rinsed, cleaned with acetone and lined with Red-Kote following the recommended procedure for both the de-rust and redkote products. Taking the time and paying enough attention to properly drain and rinse, then clean with acetone to remove all traces of water, etc. is obviously essential to proper bonding but I'm happy with the results thus far.

 

[Wingedwheel]

I’m cheap so I just used white vinegar. Soaked for a few days, add drywall screws and shake, shake, shake. You just have to dry it well after rinsing or it flashes very quickly. Like Gary said, I won’t use a liner unless I suspect a seam leak.

 

[Grewth]

I'm getting the message about preparation being of the utmost importance.
I've seen an awful lot of failed tank liners, including one in a glassfibre BSA Spitfire tank I bought.
I also bought a pair of nicely painted side panels from a Heritage Special, and the vendor had a quick rummage in his garage and produced the matching fuel tank, which he gave me for nothing.
The said tank was rotted through along the bottom next to the weld seam, and some scumbag had just taped over the rust holes, then added a slosh tank liner.
The tank was then treated to quite an expensive looking professional paint job.
Obviously someone who didn't give a damn about customer care or satisfaction, just grab the money and run !

 

[Mikey]

I’m cheap so I just used white vinegar. Soaked for a few days, add drywall screws and shake, shake, shake. You just have to dry it well after rinsing or it flashes very quickly. Like Gary said, I won’t use a liner unless I suspect a seam leak.

 

[40north]

for shake-o-matic it's possible to use old sawzall and a spring-mounted / bungee (I scored an old milwaukee 2 speed sawzall) plywood "fixture", hose clamps and so forth. I have used that for spray can paint agitating. For a tank it's kinna smallish tho. and ya gotta keep changing it around. Speed control by variac. A Home Depot dimmer switch (800 watt) will also work, and those are cheap. (That's what I use on the forge blower. ).. . I like the old mixer idea really well! For drying I have used a hair dryer and the aluminized jumpers from old VW fan-to-exhaust heater bleed. Alcohol vapors in air can go bang, speaking of drying alcohol and hot air from hair dryer, or heat gun.(variac again for heat control). I have never used the liner stuff, but have welded up leaks in old triumph flat bottom tank seams... those tanks are really thin! (I inerted the tank with CO2.) I have to de-rusto the fatbobs on my softtail evo. Gunna fix up the old mixer for that, I reckon. variacs come up sometimes on Craig's list for about half of new. (new on amazon if you wanna see a variac. Not an everyday tool, but nice to have. Lotta good ideas y'all have here. Thanks.

 

[Grewth]

I was looking at a shake-o-matic made from an old 12v car wiper motor fed off a 12v mains transformer.
Just used the crank and linkage to keep the tank rocking against the tension of a bungee strap.
Not particularly clever or sophisticated, but it's simple, safe, and easy to make