XS650 Thermometer-Dipsticks

DogBunny

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I have been making XS650 ThermoDipSticks for about six months.
They have been tested for tens of thousands of miles on dozens of bikes in several different countries and in all weather extremes.
Most of the cost of the units is in the thermometer, which is the best that I could find. The thermometers are custom-made for me in the USA, and are silicone coated for vibration dampening and to maximize heat transfer and response time. The company that I buy the thermometers from makes their own line of thermometer-dipsticks using the exact same thermometer that I use.
The current price is $45.95. Ordering instructions and more pictures are here:
http://www.handspiral.com/ThermoDipStick.htm
I currently have most "clock indexes" in stock. It takes about a week to make a new unit if your "clock index" is not in stock. Thanks.

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Ill vouch for Will, these are so cool! I bought one about 2 months ago I think? Maybe longer than that. Love it on my XS, and works flawless
 
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Thanks to everyone who has purchased one of my XS650 ThermoDipSticks.

http://www.handspiral.com/ThermoDipStick.htm

I currently have most "clock indexes" in stock. It takes about a week to make a new unit if your "clock index" is not in stock.

A Forum Member recently asked if they have marks for measuring the oil level. YES! The probe is exactly the same length as the stock probe, and it has marks for measuring oil level.

I am still offering these at the introductory price of $45.95. Most of that cost is in the thermometer -- they are a custom length, and are made to order for me. Shipping is $5.50 to the U.S. and Canada. They are shipped by US Priority Mail in the U.S. and by First Class Mail International to Canada (about 10 days, depending on customs). All other countries, ask me for a shipping quote. I have sent many to Australia -- it takes about two weeks by First Class Mail International, which was $11.50 the last time I sent one.
Thanks.
 
Just ordered and I can't wait to get it. Great looking product man. Mine was at 12:00 aluminum, is that stock or no?
 
How hot is too hot?
In my opinion, the dipstick gauge should not be allowed to get over 260 degrees. How did I arrive at that number? There is a long explanation below. If I am doing sustained highway riding on a very hot day, my gauge maxes out at 260. All is fine, but if I then immediately slow down and start idling, the engine seems to be a little "loose" until it cools down. I have done this a lot of times, and I don't think 260 does any permanent harm, but I think that is the practical limit for these engines. However, at 260, I do think there is some break-down of the oil, which I think is a really good reason to change your oil every 1,000 miles, which is what the manual calls for.

I know for a fact that lots of XS650s can easily exceed 260. So, what to do if your cruising along and you start exceeding 260? You simply lower your RPMs. You might think that the more RPMs, the more speed, and therefore more air-cooling. It doesn't work that way at highway speeds. What else can you do to lower engine temps? You can fix your lean condition -- try increasing the size of your main jet. Or you can install an external oil cooler.

I have done three side-by-side comparisons, running my bike against other XS650s, both bikes equipped with ThermoDipSticks. In all three cases, my bike ran 10 to 20 degrees cooler than the others. Thermometers were swapped in mid-ride, results were the same (these are very accurate and high-quality thermometers). Why am I cooler? Well, for one thing, I spent a LOT of time dialing my bike in, and the jetting is perfect. I use BS38s, and two of the "hot" bikes had BS34s, which came lean from the factory due to EPA requirements. There are probably other differences, such as octane used and riding style. For example, I run premium, and one of the bikes I ran against was using regular, and that rider liked to keep his RPMs high to avoid knocking

http://xs650temp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=EngineStock&action=display&thread=16693&page=3
The above thread shows what temperatures I and others are getting, beginning on page 3. If you go to the beginning of the thread, page 1, you can see how the ThermoDipStick was developed.

How hot is too hot?
This is a really complicated issue. The following really simplistic answer says that motor oil begins breaking down at temperatures above 260 F:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/281441
On the other hand, Wikipedia says that in petrol gasoline engines, the top piston ring can expose the motor oil to temperatures of 320 °F:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

I pored through a lot of articles on the various XS650 forums, and I found where someone said optimum running temperature is 200 F, but that is certainly not a maximum, and it also implies that below 200 F is too cool for a number of reasons. For example, fuel does not burn as efficiently when you are below an engine's optimum temp.

oil_temps_copy_314.jpg

This picture was made by the late xsjohn, who used an infrared thermometer for readings. His sump temperature of 140 is extremely low, but note that he is using an external oil cooler AND a big ol' automotive oil filter. Also note the 85 degree difference between the cylinder and the sump. I also have an infrared thermometer, and I intend to conduct my own cylinder temperature tests, which I will be reporting here.

BTW, my MikesXS oil filter/cooler kit just arrived this minute. I am going out right now to conduct before and after temperature comparisons, which I will also be reporting here.
 
How hot is too hot?
In my opinion, the dipstick gauge should not be allowed to get over 260 degrees. How did I arrive at that number? There is a long explanation below. If I am doing sustained highway riding on a very hot day, my gauge maxes out at 260. All is fine, but if I then immediately slow down and start idling, the engine seems to be a little "loose" until it cools down. I have done this a lot of times, and I don't think 260 does any permanent harm, but I think that is the practical limit for these engines. However, at 260, I do think there is some break-down of the oil, which I think is a really good reason to change your oil every 1,000 miles, which is what the manual calls for.

I know for a fact that lots of XS650s can easily exceed 260. So, what to do if your cruising along and you start exceeding 260? You simply lower your RPMs. You might think that the more RPMs, the more speed, and therefore more air-cooling. It doesn't work that way at highway speeds. What else can you do to lower engine temps? You can fix your lean condition -- try increasing the size of your main jet. Or you can install an external oil cooler.

I have done three side-by-side comparisons, running my bike against other XS650s, both bikes equipped with ThermoDipSticks. In all three cases, my bike ran 10 to 20 degrees cooler than the others. Thermometers were swapped in mid-ride, results were the same (these are very accurate and high-quality thermometers). Why am I cooler? Well, for one thing, I spent a LOT of time dialing my bike in, and the jetting is perfect. I use BS38s, and two of the "hot" bikes had BS34s, which came lean from the factory due to EPA requirements. There are probably other differences, such as octane used and riding style. For example, I run premium, and one of the bikes I ran against was using regular, and that rider liked to keep his RPMs high to avoid knocking

http://xs650temp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=EngineStock&action=display&thread=16693&page=3
The above thread shows what temperatures I and others are getting, beginning on page 3. If you go to the beginning of the thread, page 1, you can see how the ThermoDipStick was developed.

How hot is too hot?
This is a really complicated issue. The following really simplistic answer says that motor oil begins breaking down at temperatures above 260 F:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/281441
On the other hand, Wikipedia says that in petrol gasoline engines, the top piston ring can expose the motor oil to temperatures of 320 °F:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

I pored through a lot of articles on the various XS650 forums, and I found where someone said optimum running temperature is 200 F, but that is certainly not a maximum, and it also implies that below 200 F is too cool for a number of reasons. For example, fuel does not burn as efficiently when you are below an engine's optimum temp.

oil_temps_copy_314.jpg

This picture was made by the late xsjohn, who used an infrared thermometer for readings. His sump temperature of 140 is extremely low, but note that he is using an external oil cooler AND a big ol' automotive oil filter. Also note the 85 degree difference between the cylinder and the sump. I also have an infrared thermometer, and I intend to conduct my own cylinder temperature tests, which I will be reporting here.

BTW, my MikesXS oil filter/cooler kit just arrived this minute. I am going out right now to conduct before and after temperature comparisons, which I will also be reporting here.


Hi DogBunny, just a note on the pic xsjohn has about his temperatures on his bike, the oil cooler is for the head, meaning it is plugged into the oil outlet going to the head and reconnected into the oil line so it is cooling the head before rejoining the oil in the sump, also he put a cover over the cooler if the outside temperature was 70 or lower. He lowered the compression and retarded the timing on the bike which also had an effect on the engine temp. I dont think using his findings is a good example to use as a base
 
Points well taken.
It has been a while since I actually read those xsjohn posts, and I'd forgotten the fine points. The very fact that xsjohn had an oil cooler, and that most of the rest of us don't, skews the whole thing from the beginning, but those were the only numbers I could find.

I now have some figures of my own. I finally used my infrared thermometer to take cylinder temperature readings today.

1976, BS38s, stock headers, long shotgun pipes with baffles, pods, properly jetted accordingly.

Ambient air temp was 62 degrees, I rode the bike for about a half hour to warm it up, then hit the Interstate, maintained a speed of 70 to 75 MPH which is about 4,500 RPM on my bike, for about 15 minutes. This yielded a sump temp as measured by the dipstick thermometer of about 225 degrees. I quickly brought the bike to a stop, and took infrared temp readings at the head right next to the spark plug with the bike idling. I got 315 on the right cylinder and 280 on the left cylinder.

There is way more testing to be done, but the 315 reading is beginning to get into the scary zone. I'll probably have to wait for summer before I can get back up to my sump temperatures of 260, but if you do a linear extrapolation, 260 at the sump would equate to a head temp of 350 on the right cylinder, based on my little test. That is damn hot, and I believe that is a good practical limit for these engines.

Doubtless there are those who know a lot more about this than I do, and I'd love to hear it.
 
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im out of the contry right now so i can not get my index of the dip stick how long will u have the special price for
 
im out of the contry right now so i can not get my index of the dip stick how long will u have the special price for
I believe that once the word gets out everyone will want one, and I will raise the price when I start getting orders faster than I wish to fill them. This is totally word-of-mouth advertising, so I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

BTW, take a look at your stock plastic dipstick, it is ugly, and it is one of the few exposed pieces of plastic on the bike. At least with the earlier aluminum dipsticks you can polish them, but still, the ThermoDipStick looks better.
 
Have you read one that wasn't lined up as you show? As in: I kind of can't decide if I like the way it looks when you can see it while riding, or when the bike is parked straight on........

I run Plastic, and my position is dead on 9 o'clock pointing straight back.
 
In either position -- let's call them my way and your way... it will be easy to read the gauge either on or off the bike.

I have one with your "clock index" of plastic, 9:00, that is ready to ship "my way." If you want one "your way," I will have to make it, but it only takes a couple of days to make.
Thanks, --DB
 
In either position -- let's call them my way and your way... it will be easy to read the gauge either on or off the bike.

I have one with your "clock index" of plastic, 9:00, that is ready to ship "my way." If you want one "your way," I will have to make it, but it only takes a couple of days to make.
Thanks, --DB

Hey DB. I just placed in order with the email: wally426ci@gmail.com

I put it in the order, but to clarify, I would like it my way as in reading it straight on off the bike.

Thanks!!:thumbsup:
 
Got your payment, thanks a lot, it will be a couple of days, I will keep you informed. -- DB

I am still waiting to do a test to see if the MikesXS oil cooler/filter kit has a detectable effect on sump temperatures. It has been raining.
 
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