21" Cross 3 Spoke Pattern - Need help - Spokes bending

Hey guys,

I'm having some trouble lacing a 21" DT rim to my stock XS front hub.

First off, a bit of background.

I took the rim and hub to a very well respected wheel builder in my area. He manufactured custom spokes and re-drilled the rim to make it work. He offered to lace it up for an extra fee but I declined (regretting that slightly, now).

This guy knows his stuff and does a lot of very high quality resto work on brit/jap bikes, so I have no reason to doubt his work. He told me when I picked up the spokes that the way he had drilled it had changed it from a Cross 2 to a Cross 3 pattern but that it should go together relatively easily. He also marked half the spokes "inner" and the other half "outer" as they had slightly different bends at the head.

So I did some googling and attempted to lace it up. Result below:



NOTE: The wheel hasn't been trued yet and all nipples are only on loosely at this stage

Problem is some of the spokes have a serious bend on them (see pics).





I'm guessing by the amount of bend this is not normal and won't be corrected when the wheel is trued?

Have I laced it incorrectly for a Cross 3?

I am hesitant to contact the wheel builder at this stage as I didn't take him up on his offer to assemble for me and he mentioned that he gets a bit pissed off when people say "I'll do it myself", then hassle him with questions, which is obviously absolutely fair enough.

So I'm hassling you guys with questions instead...

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

The problem is, you are trying to lace it up like a bicycle wheel. It should be a stright shot. You have the inner spoke going over the otter spoke.

Robd said:

The problem is, you are trying to lace it up like a bicycle wheel. It should be a stright shot. You have the inner spoke going over the otter spoke.

Click to expand...

Well spotted!

Quick delete those pictures or you will forever be "that guy" in spoking horror stories. (grin)

Robd got it right. Let's see the pics after you redo it?

I kinda wonder how you DID that.....
The normal spoke installation order is to lace up all the inners then put in the outers.

Nope, "that guy" has got to be the one who spent like $1300 on his wheels. He's my nomination for "Wheel Weenie of 2014", lol.

Robd said:

The problem is, you are trying to lace it up like a bicycle wheel. It should be a stright shot. You have the inner spoke going over the otter spoke.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your help guys.

I've never done a cross 3 and found it really difficult to find any info online about lacing one.

The only info/tutorial stuff I could find was... yep, you guessed it... designed for bicycles!

I'm just glad I embarrassed myself here first and didn't contact the builder...

Will repost pics once it's all rectified.

Sincerely,
That guy...

P.S. Didn't grease the threads when it went together the first time but I will when I redo it. Any particular type of grease to use, or will general purpose stuff do?

I anti-seize them, also a little around the base of the nipple where it turns in the rim.

5twins said:

Nope, "that guy" has got to be the one who spent like $1300 on his wheels. He's my nomination for "Wheel Weenie of 2014", lol.

Click to expand...

guess your reffering to me

Thanks again for your help dudes.

Pretty sure I got it right this time...






Still some slight bending on the outers but I'm guessing that will pull out when it's all trued up.

If anyone can spot any other issues with the lacing, please let me know.

I see too many exposed threads on some of the outers, and some buried threads on some of the inners. Some outers seem to be overbending to wrap over the hub. Wonder if some of the outers should be swapped with some inners.

Heres the pattern on an OE 18" rim to help you, although looks like you have it sussed

If you study Paul's wheel, you have the same pattern, but the inners and outers on one side of your hub are on the wrong side. I would relace, inners only first, true, then install outers, then final true...

Yes, it appears you have the spokes in the wrong holes in the hub on one flange. Inners are in what were originally outer holes. You can see the marks on the hub that the original outers left. You have inners in those holes. You also have them angled the wrong way, the same as the outers on the other flange. They should angle opposite from them. I can't believe you're going through all this work and you didn't clean up that ratty hub first.

I see what you're talking about now...

Cheers boys.

Will have a go at take 3!

5Twins, everything will come back apart for cleaning, sandblasting and paint. Waiting on plenty of other stuff so just want to learn how to lace it properly first to avoid messing around later. Once I have it nailed I'll use photos/notes as a reference for the final assembly.

If you clean or paint the hub to the point where you can't see the marks left by the original spokes to get the pattern started correctly, here's how to start it. The holes in the two flanges don't line up with each other exactly, they're like a half a space off .....



You can also see here how the same type of spokes (inners or outers) on the two flanges angle in the opposite direction.

5twins,

Thanks a lot for your help mate. Really appreciate the effort.

Haven't had a chance to get out to the shed for a few days but will be hitting it again this week.

I'll report back, hopefully for the last time...