An Adventure in Firsts: '83 XS650 Heritage Special Build/Rebuild

[5twins]

Your filter doesn't look terribly bad. It's pretty normal to find small bits of metal and rubber in it. But what you're seeing may be an accumulation from several oil changes where the P.O. didn't clean the filter, just dumped the oil. Hopefully, the little side cover will seal back up, the little piece of gasket that tore out fitting back in where it came from. Now you see the importance of having a spare gasket on hand. This gasket usually lasts and lasts, darn near forever, but in the event you damage one (like yours), you need to have a spare on hand. An extra filter is a good idea too. Then you'll have a clean one to swap in at oil changes, and you can clean up the "used" one at your leisure to have ready for the next oil change.

While your plugs don't look terrible, I do think they look a tad rich. That strap coming up off the side should gray for most of it's length. Yours is black a good half way up. Also, the porcelain center section should be white farther down into the plug body. There should only be a black color ring near it's bottom. Yours looks like the color ring is about half way up. Now, this could just be from all your choke use during starting attempts. Using the choke will blacken up the plugs quite quickly and it takes a good ride of a few miles to burn them clean again. But, it could also be an indication that you're running rich, possibly from having some leaky float needles over-filling your float bowls. Your float needle seats have an o-ring on them and just push into the carb body. If that o-ring has gone bad, sometimes even if the float needle is still sealing, fuel can leak past the outside of the float needle seat and over-fill the bowl.

 

[MarieKaramazov]

one for the filter and one for the filter cover. Was there only just the cover?

There was one for the filter as well. But I suspect it's also worn. It was on the filter and then got stuck to the inside but then came back off. I'll just grab both.

That's bent pretty bad

I'll get a new one, and gaskets. I imagine I can order them all online. Need to go stock for gaskets or is there a secret there? You think I shouldn't run and ride the bike with it in and bent like this?

And I doubt the PO changed the oil at 300. I don't think he was riding it enough to be doing basic maintenance much beyond when he got it.

Normally you rinse and dry but a little mineral spirits wouldn't hurt anything.

Thanks!

Hopefully, the little side cover will seal back up, the little piece of gasket that tore out fitting back in where it came from.

it sure did. We'll see if it leaks when I try to start it now...

Your BS34 carbs are designed to let gas overflow run out the back of the carbs and not into the engine.

Meaning that even if the float valves are leaking it wouldn't get into the engine oil?

 

[member28833]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274638818201
Quick search found this filter and both gaskets, good deal? idk

 

[Mikey]

www.aircraftspruce.com
Part# AN900-19
1-3/16" ID
Right now they are $1.59 a piece $2.70 shipping to MN First class mail
Shipping is pretty reasonable just order like 10 of them
The ones from Mike's are too thick and too solid
These are for the oil drain plugs

 

[5twins]

I think the gas could still get into the engine. If the carbs fill too much, gas will bubble up into the main bore of the carbs then flow back into the filters AND forward into the motor. Here's the carbs on my '83 and it certainly looks like they angle towards the motor. Seems that would direct overflowing fuel into the motor first and not back into the filters unless it was really gushing out, lol .....

It may be cheaper to get the gaskets and filter you need from MikesXS or even better, XS650Direct. I would get 2 of each gasket (one to use, one for a spare), a couple packs of the drain plug sealing washers (they come in 2 packs), and don't forget a couple gaskets for the bottom sump plate. Even though you didn't pull it off this time, chances are very good you'll need a fresh gasket for it when you do. Also, I think the green colored gaskets (Athena brand I think) that these places sell are more robust and hold up better than the originals.

https://www.xs650direct.com/products?show_all=true&category=111&page=1

https://www.xs650direct.com/products?show_all=true&category=105&page=2

 

[jetmechmarty]

I think the gas could still get into the engine.

If the bike parked on the centerstand, the carburetors may leak into the engine. Less so on the sidestand, but I believe still possible.

It may be cheaper to get the gaskets and filter you need from MikesXS

I just received a 5 lb box from Dime City (Dime City/MikesXS). I paid the $15 shipping and the box was here in two days. They don't keep you waiting, if that matters.

 

[Jim]

As long as nothing is leaking (badly anyway), I'd think you're safe to run it with the filter as is.... but do get a replacement. You'll have to scrape off that torn gasket piece. Take care doing that lest you scratch the surface it seals against.

Meaning that even if the float valves are leaking it wouldn't get into the engine oil?

Yes, here's a pic of the BS34 on my run stand/test engine. Same carbs as you have. The red arrows point to the float chamber overflows. Fuel will run out them and into the air filter box... not into the engine. the yellow arrow points to the needle and needle valve. I suppose it's possible for a slight amount of fuel to come out there and go into the engine... but it would be an extremely small amount... if any. For fuel to get into the oil, it would have to pool inside the cylinder long enough to get past the rings. It takes a considerable amount of fuel to do that. Maybe others have had a different experience, but my right carb on the test engine has a sticky float valve and overflows sometimes. It's never ran into the engine... always out the back of the carb.

 

[Jim]

I think the gas could still get into the engine. If the carbs fill too much, gas will bubble up into the main bore of the carbs then flow back into the filters AND forward into the motor. Here's the carbs on my '83 and it certainly looks like they angle towards the motor. Seems that would direct overflowing fuel into the motor first and not back into the filters unless it was really gushing out, lol .....

It may be cheaper to get the gaskets and filter you need from MikesXS or even better, XS650Direct. I would get 2 of each gasket (one to use, one for a spare), a couple packs of the drain plug sealing washers (they come in 2 packs), and don't forget a couple gaskets for the bottom sump plate. Even though you didn't pull it off this time, chances are very good you'll need a fresh gasket for it when you do. Also, I think the green colored gaskets (Athena brand I think) that these places sell are more robust and hold up better than the originals.

https://www.xs650direct.com/products?show_all=true&category=111&page=1

https://www.xs650direct.com/products?show_all=true&category=105&page=2

If the bike parked on the centerstand, the carburetors may leak into the engine. Less so on the sidestand, but I believe still possible.


I just received a 5 lb box from Dime City (Dime City/MikesXS). I paid the $15 shipping and the box was here in two days. They don't keep you waiting, if that matters.

The fuel would have to travel uphill into the throat of the carb. I suppose it could, but I don't see how.

 

[Jim]

Fuel would run down the back of the carb (blue squiggles). It would then have to travel back uphill to make it to the throat (green line). I know people have had gas down in their engines, but if I'm not mistaken, it's always been the BS38's that do that?

 

[jetmechmarty]

The fuel would have to travel uphill into the throat of the carb. I suppose it could, but I don't see how

I haven't studied it, but among my peers here and in the XS1100 community there have been several crankcases full of gasoline. I would be vigilant on that based upon the experience of others. (My bikes don't leak) I went with my cousin to buy an XS1100 and the crankcase was full of gasoline. The carbies look the same as on XS650. All BS34 experience for me.

 

[jetmechmarty]

@MarieKaramazov, I think it easy enough to be sure your fuel petcock seals. Take the fuel line off and make sure fuel doesn't flow. If it doesn't it's not to worry right now. The petcock on my '83 has been functioning since 1983.

 

[Jim]

Just had another look at run stand carbs. It looks like if the bike was parked on a downhill slope, fuel might make it's way into the engine. It would need to be about a 5-8° slope.... maybe more to overcome the angle leading into the throat. So yeah, it's possible.

 

[jetmechmarty]

It looks like if the bike was parked on a downhill slope

Or, maybe on the centerstand?

 

[5twins]

I think her bike has done a lot of sitting over the last few years. Even if the petcock is sealing, if there are float needle leaks, what's in the lines will drain into the bowls. I had this issue on one of my old BMWs. It had a bad float needle seat in one carb that would slowly leak all the time. The bike ran down the road OK because the motor could burn up that small amount of extra fuel at speed, but when you came to a stop and idled the motor, it couldn't. As that bowl over-filled, the idle would drop and the bike would want to stall. Also, parked over night, petcocks off, all the fuel in the lines would drain into that carb with the bad needle seat. This was enough to overfill it and I'd find about a softball sized fuel wet spot on the ground under that carb the next day.

I also think that if fuel was pooling in the carb throat back by the air filter, trying to start the bike would suck it into the engine.

 

[Jim]

I also think that if fuel was pooling in the carb throat back by the air filter, trying to start the bike would suck it into the engine.

Yes, but that fuel would be burnt or spit out the exhaust. It wouldn't pool in the cylinder long enough to leak past the ring gaps and into the crankcase oil.

 

[Jim]

Or, maybe on the centerstand?

Don't believe that would be enough Marty. My garage floor has a 2-3° downward slope (it's older than I am ). Last year I was messing with the floats on the SG and I screwed up the adjustment on one of 'em. On the centerstand, facing downhill (garage slope) and gas poured out the back.

It'd need to be steeper than that.

 

[Jim]

It just occurred to me...
If the petcock and one of the float valves were allowing fuel into the cylinder, at least half that fuel would be spilling out the air box and Marie would smell gas every time she walked up to her bike. Any smell there Marie?

 

[Raymond]

Wouldn't worry too much about gas/petrol in the oil. Slight smell of petrol from the oil is normal and you may have a sensitive nose?

Being a cheapskate, I often cut my own gaskets. I buy assorted gasket paper, select appropriate thickness - not usually too critical in most places - draw around the part and cut out with a small pair of curved nail scissors. Have a set of leather punches to make the bolt holes. TBH, it's not about saving money, I just like the satisfaction of being able to make something meself.

 

[MarieKaramazov]

Well guys I did it. I gambled when I had a feeling and I stranded myself on the side of the road. Cut out at low speed regardless of trying to save by blipping throttle. I’ve tried richening. Tried restarting many times. Wont even stay on in neutral. Turns on, turns over/gives me one rev or less and then dies.
Quick input appreciated if you have any ideas. On hand I have pliers, a couple small wrenches and an Allen key.

 

[member28833]

Dang!, save the battery charge! Down to Kick start only for a bit here..