1981 xs650 starting issue!

[evilcycle]

Hello Everyone, This is my first post on any xs forum. I have read many posts and am always impressed with the help from the biker community. So heres my problem. I have a 1981 xs 650 . I recently replaced the timing chain guide. Removing the top end and putting everything back together with no problems. I built this bike from baskets of parts bought in a guys front yard. A literal basket case. It has always ran well but after i put it back together it started using the starer switch and then the starter switch would sometimes start and then i would push the button many times and it would start . now nothing. It does have spark and can be kick started but the starter button has failed. I do have a new starter assembly on it from when i rebuilt the bike a couple years ago. Any help would be great. I just can't seam to figure this out. I have gone through the grounds yet . I did take the switch apart and jump the wires . Still nothing.
Thanks for your help. Steve

 

[Jim]

Welcome to the forum! Since your bike isn't stock, some good pics of all of the electrical system would be a big help.

 

[motormike]

Does it start if you jump the solenoid terminals ? If it does we can rule out that part of the system and the starter itself.

 

[evilcycle]

Yes i replaced the solenoid and when i jump the solenoid it starts. i also removed the starter relay and connected the red wires together. start button still doesn't work. tomorrow i will remove the gas tank and clean all the frame grounds. i keep going back to grounding because for me its the best place to start.
To Jim Dent, I used the stock wiring harness and left it all in tact. I hid it in the fake oil tank under the seat. Like most guys, wiring is not my strong point but learning more all the time. Ive thought about a minimal wiring harness from Tc Bros. or Mikes xs but I'm a little afraid of getting lost in it. I guess my new question is, where do the start button wires go to? I'm wondering if there is some other relay or direct connection i am missing... Do the button wires go strait to the solenoid?
Thanks for your reply! Steve

 

[evilcycle]

One other thing, I replaced the points with electronic ingnition.

 

[motormike]

Wire.. I think it's blue and white.... ? take your volt ohm meter.. put it in 12 volts..…. pull wire-terminal (not the wire) at the solenoid…if the probe on the meter is thin, ya can just slide it in the connection..... key on... apply meter leads.. hit black starter button.. ?.. results ? .. do the other switches on that side of the bars work.. lights come on.... ?

 

[evilcycle]

thanks Motor Mike i will check that in the morning. Now that you mention it, the horn and headlight don't work but the tail light and blinkers all work as should. Im going to dig deeper tomorrow and probe for power to these other problems. I just installed a new battery also.

 

[motormike]

.. possible ground... isn't that switch ground'd on the bar.... I changed bars once and lost all switches...kill'd a lot o grey matter before I discovered the bar was some sort of metal that doesn't do...electrics …. ran a ground wire from the switch to the frame.. problem solved.

On a side note.. I'm not the brightest …but my wires are ! I installed a air compressor with dual horns.... hook'd the compressor to the pink horn button.. turn'd the key on and hit the horn button... instantly the entire pink wire turned bright as the sun for a nano second.. all insulation was ..gone.. serious smoke.... (my Triumph was envious).... I was left with two or three strands of pink wire left... I then discovered the world of.. relays ….

 

[5twins]

The blue/white wire from the solenoid runs to the start button and is a path to ground. Push the button and you ground out the blue/white wire. Unplug it at the solenoid and touch it to ground, the starter should activate. If it doesn't, the solenoid is bad, if it does, the start button isn't working right.

 

[evilcycle]

Thanks 5twins! Thanks to all for your help. I am enjoying this forum! Over and out for tonight. I will give you all a full report after tomorrows hair pulling. Wish me luck

 

[motormike]

I also discovered it's possible to somehow .. don't ask me how I did it... to wire the starter thru the turn signal relay...I hit the little black button... starter came on.. then off. on and off... Oooh…
I hate electrical gremlins....

 

[evilcycle]

Hello All, So it turns out the start button has a small piece of metal that touches the handlebars and creates the ground. For some reason the will not ground out. I even sanded it down and ground a landing area for it on the handle bar, still no luck. So i made up a new wire and installed it in the switch, then ran it into the head light and grounded it to the mounting bolt. PROBLEM SOLVED!!! and the horn now works. It always seam to be grounding issues. Why the switch will not ground out? I have no clue. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[5twins]

Usually, the starter button gets it's ground through the handlebar from the other (left) switch. The left control has a ground wire running into the headlight. Sounds like that connection is bad. With your new wire, you are now providing a new ground for both switch assemblies, and the horn now works again. The horn button works the same as the starter button, pushing it grounds out the wire connected to it.

 

[evilcycle]

I ve been running it and starting it briefly so not to over heat it. I blew the 10 amp ignition fuse. I only had a 15 amp fuse and i know its a no no but put it in and started the bike to set the timing. after i shut it off i ran my hand over the wiring and felt the voltage regulator was very warm. I will pick up 10 amp fuses tomorrow. Is this a red flag or am i just over thinking it. I don't remember the regulator ever being warm. The fact that i blew the 10 amp fuse now has me worried. Any thoughts?

 

[5twins]

Voltage regulators do get warm during operation but exactly how warm, I can't say, I never felt one. I think you need to check over all your wiring as you seem to have electrical problems popping up left and right now. With the way these bikes vibrate, wires can and do get rubbed bare and start shorting out. Check all the wires in the headlight bucket as that is a common problem area. In that area also, the holes in the bucket that the wires enter through should have rubber grommets on them or the wires can get cut.