Bike won't start

[Russdog]

Hey Guys,

Been lurking forever, learning a ton and completely building my bike from the ground up, but now that it's complete i'm having issues.

Can't seem to get my bike to start - kick only with Hughs PMA and Pamco ignition. While i was building it, i was able to get it to start/idle with just the stator/battery/ignition coil connected. Got it all wired up and it didn't start, so i broke it down to the basics of just ignition coil/stator/battery and it won't start.

I thought i had burnt out the first coil, by leaving the ignition switch on. Got a new coil and as soon as i connected it, it let out a big backfire without kicking or anything. Did I blow another coil? - i did not have it through my fuse box just trying to get the thing to start.

What should I test to see what's wrong? any ideas or tips to try?

thanks
Russ

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Russ,
just maybe you blew the Pamco? From what I read here it's real easy to blow a Pamco if you're not extremely careful and somehow eff up the connections &/or the test procedures.

 

[Russdog]

Thanks I didn't think that would blow too easily. I'll troubleshoot that and see if anything happens

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[5twins]

Have you tested for spark? That should be your first move. No spark and then you could start investigating electrical stuff like coil(s) and Pamco. If you have spark then maybe the timing is just set way off, or the carbs way off.

 

[pamcopete]

Hi Russ,
just maybe you blew the Pamco? From what I read here it's real easy to blow a Pamco if you're not extremely careful and somehow eff up the connections &/or the test procedures.

I think the words "real easy" and "extremely" are a little extreme. Also, "from what I read here" is a little disappointing. I do not comment on anything unless I have had hands on experience with the problem at hand, and that is true of most of the many helpful members here, but there are exceptions.

The usual problem with a PMA / PAMCO setup is the PMA or its regulator, which will do one of three things:

1. Fail to provide enough voltage to operate the ignition, PAMCO or any other, so you will kick your leg off trying to start it.
2. Fail to adequately filter the pulsating out put from the PMA.
3. Generate a very high Voltage, like 20+ volts, which fries the ignition along with the rest of the electrical system.

The recommended procedure to troubleshoot a non start or rough running problem is to isolate the PMA from the ignition system by connecting the ignition system to a known good battery. If the engine starts / runs with this test, then the problem is in the PMA or regulator. If the engine doesn't start / run, then it's an ignition or carb problem.

In this particular case, russ was able to get the engine to start / run when he did try connecting the PAMCO to a battery. His problem started when he completed the wiring of the PMA / regulator. (see #1, 2 3 above), so I would suggest that he try the battery connection arrangement again.

 

[Russdog]

I'm not getting a consistent spark . I actually only saw it once when it backfired after connecting the new coil to the battery without a fuze.

The plugs still appear to be brand new.

I had the bike running when it was in my basement. Only thing that had changed was bolting the exhaust on and wiring everything up. I did undo the wiring to just ignition battery and regulator in case there were problems internally. However before I undid the wiring with a capacitor connected the headlight would pulse on.

I'll have a chance after work today to take a look around.

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[pamcopete]

Russdog,

Try just ignition and battery. Disconnect the regulator.

 

[Russdog]

Hey pete,
Yea that's how my set up has been just trying to get it to start. That's why I thought it was my coil. I connected a new coil and it backfired as soon as I connected the battery, but after that I couldn't get spark or anything going. I'm thinking the charge to the coil may have burned out the second one because I didn't have a breaker on it. Its just the basic black coil from mikesxs that's like 30 bucks.

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[peanut]

before I undid the wiring with a capacitor connected the headlight would pulse on.

you have a capacitor fitted ? I was assuming that you had a battery fitted .
If you have a capacitor fitted , disconnect it for the battery start test. Make sure you haven't inverted the capacitor connections . Caps are polarized.

 

[fredintoon]

I think the words "real easy" and "extremely" are a little extreme. Also, "from what I read here" is a little disappointing. I do not comment on anything unless I have had hands on experience with the problem at hand, and that is true of most of the many helpful members here, but there are exceptions.

Hi pete,
admittedly I have no first hand experience with pamco products.
Doubtless when installed and operated properly they work reliably and well.
But lots more folks post about pamco problems than post about stock ignition problems.
Try going to the Search function and typing in:-
"Stock electronic ignition problems" and get 28 hits.
"Stock points ignition problems" and get 50 hits.
"pamco ignition problems" and get 216 hits.
NOT saying there's anything wrong with pamco products.
AM suggesting they should include a far more detailed installation and use manual.
It sometimes comes as a surprise to experts such as yourself to see how many ways the average amateur can find to Eff a thing up.

 

[pamcopete]

Hi pete,
admittedly I have no first hand experience with pamco products.
Doubtless when installed and operated properly they work reliably and well.
But lots more folks post about pamco problems than post about stock ignition problems.
Try going to the Search function and typing in:-
"Stock electronic ignition problems" and get 28 hits.
"Stock points ignition problems" and get 50 hits.
"pamco ignition problems" and get 216 hits.
NOT saying there's anything wrong with pamco products.
AM suggesting they should include a far more detailed installation and use manual.
It sometimes comes as a surprise to experts such as yourself to see how many ways the average amateur can find to Eff a thing up.

frediitoon,

The thing you miss is the fact that I conduct my warranty and customer service right here in the open for all to see. Try asking some of my competitors to give you access to their customer support Emails. The fact that you don't see many of them here is because their customer is directed to their customer support facility, so "from what I read here" does not include any of my competitors conversations with their customers.

Even that summary that you have just posted only includes stock points and TCI and PAMCO. Where are the others? Is their product perfect? I said I was disappointed in your post because in general you post some very useful information based on your actual experience. Not this time.

Your hits are a miss as well because in many cases a person will simply replace his points or TCI with a PAMCO without starting a thread here. (that one was really stupid on your part. )

 

[fredintoon]

- - - I said I was disappointed in your post because in general you post some very useful information based on your actual experience. Not this time.

Hi pete,
as far as I understand from what I see posted on this list you make excellent products and are well known to lean over backwards in aftersales support and help.
But that's not from first-hand experience either, eh?

 

[peanut]

hey Fred
lets keep Russ's thread on topic eh

 

[hippiedreads]

Not sure if you're still messing around with this but I had a similar problem and noticed the driver transistor on the pamco had been fried probably due to high voltage. Got a replaced it with a transistor I bought from radio shack and wala, spark. PN: 2762068

 

[retiredgentleman]

Not sure if you're still messing around with this but I had a similar problem and noticed the driver transistor on the pamco had been fried probably due to high voltage. Got a replaced it with a transistor I bought from radio shack and wala, spark. PN: 2762068

Well lets have the details. Did you buy the Pamco new and install it, or did you buy a bike and it came with the bike? Does the bike have a new PMA with a battery or with a capacitor. Does it have a stock alternator and battery?
Did the Pamco ever work on the bike, or are you starting the engine for the first time since replacing parts?

 

[hippiedreads]

Well lets have the details. Did you buy the Pamco new and install it, or did you buy a bike and it came with the bike? Does the bike have a new PMA with a battery or with a capacitor. Does it have a stock alternator and battery?
Did the Pamco ever work on the bike, or are you starting the engine for the first time since replacing parts?

Bought the bike as a high school senior shop project and got a little in over my head on time constraints and lack of priorities (girls). When I bought it the owner said it had been sitting around for years in his garage under a cover. I could get it to hit with starter fluid but obviously wouldn't run. Tore the whole thing down to frame and painted it. Cleaned up everything real nice, relaced spokes and stuff like that and got the engine back in the frame and rolling. Then I went off to college and put everything in boxes for about 3 years. Recently got back into the bike and that's when I upgraded to the pamco ignition and pma charging system. With everything installed per instructions I hooked the wiring up to a fully charged 12.8V battery. Currently it's only set up with a key so I turned the key and gave the bike a good hard kick with a spray of starter fluid in the freshly rebuilt carbs and got a loud pop and a wiz of something flying off the left hand side of the bike. Immediately turned the key back off and unhooked the battery. After being puzzled for some time I noticed the transistor had literally shot off a corner piece of the plastic cover. I replaced it with the part number listed above and ran the same wiring, battery, pma and now I'm getting spark again.