Gibson
XS650 Addict
I may be mistaken, but I think brake cleaner is a strong solvent for cleaning grease off rotors etc. I don't know but it may harm rubber parts inside. Anyone know?
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Product Description
CRC Brakleen Brake Parts Cleaner is formulated to quickly and safely remove grease, oil brake fluid and other contaminants from brake linings, pads, drums and calipers and all other mechanical components. It is perfect for cleaning machinery, motors and general mechanical equipment when a vapor degreaser is required. Eliminates clutch slippage and is ideal for removing grease and contaminates from CV joints and wheel bearings and reduces maintenance cost. Protect all rubber parts and painted surfaces from overspray. Selected solvents, controlled evaporation, low surface tension and high density ensure superior cleaning and degreasing properties and can even lift and remove oil and grease that has already penetrated linings.
CRC Brakleen Brake Parts Cleaner is formulated to quickly and safely remove grease, oil brake fluid and other contaminants from brake linings, pads, drums and calipers and all other mechanical components. It is perfect for cleaning machinery, motors and general mechanical equipment when a vapor degreaser is required. Eliminates clutch slippage and is ideal for removing grease and contaminates from CV joints and wheel bearings and reduces maintenance cost. Protect all rubber parts and painted surfaces from overspray. Selected solvents, controlled evaporation, low surface tension and high density ensure superior cleaning and degreasing properties and can even lift and remove oil and grease that has already penetrated linings.
Exactly, weekendrider, that's what I been reading to.
But since the rubber parts are not visible but are behind the pistons, I thought that it would be possible to use before pressing the pistons out. As long as I also remove the brake cleaner before pressing out the pistons and exposing the rubber parts.
So the question is, can the brake cleaner (or rust resolver like wd40) reach the rubber parts behind the piston? I want to remove as much crud, rust etc to make it easier to press out the pistons and to keep them from being scratched.
But since the rubber parts are not visible but are behind the pistons, I thought that it would be possible to use before pressing the pistons out. As long as I also remove the brake cleaner before pressing out the pistons and exposing the rubber parts.
So the question is, can the brake cleaner (or rust resolver like wd40) reach the rubber parts behind the piston? I want to remove as much crud, rust etc to make it easier to press out the pistons and to keep them from being scratched.
Really the BEST lube is brake fluid, push out with the lever back with the c-clamp a couple times on each piston, then they should come out decent. Once the rubber parts are out THEN go at it with the brake cleaner. Pics of the insides?
Yes, it worked and I did it. 
Thanks for pushing me... What do you think about the marks on the pistons? Are they good enough to reuse after som cleaning and some grinding? Which fine paper grade would be suitable?
The rubber inside the calipers looked fine. Will post some images tomorrow. Is it necessary to take them out, or is it enough to clean their surfaces and around them? And in that case, is it enough to clean out the calipers with other resolvent that will not cause any damage to the rubber? If not, any tip on how to remove the rubber band without destroying it.
I also noticed that it's leaking at the lever when I pressed really hard. A small squeezing sound and then some fluid. Very little though, no stream, but it makes me think that I need to rebuild the lever also.
Thanks for pushing me... What do you think about the marks on the pistons? Are they good enough to reuse after som cleaning and some grinding? Which fine paper grade would be suitable? The rubber inside the calipers looked fine. Will post some images tomorrow. Is it necessary to take them out, or is it enough to clean their surfaces and around them? And in that case, is it enough to clean out the calipers with other resolvent that will not cause any damage to the rubber? If not, any tip on how to remove the rubber band without destroying it.
I also noticed that it's leaking at the lever when I pressed really hard. A small squeezing sound and then some fluid. Very little though, no stream, but it makes me think that I need to rebuild the lever also.
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Hi marp,
sorry, but those pistons are not economically salvageable.
That is, the ring of corrosion pits are right where the square-section rubber seals fit and if you leave them there the damaged surfaces will destroy the seals.
If you grind the surface back smooth the pistons diameter will be sufficiently reduced that the seals won't work properly.
The only good fix is to machine grind them small enough that they can be hard-chromed and then ground back to stock size.
That'll cost WAY more than buying new pistons.
And yeah, if your master cylinder is leaking it too needs a teardown & rebuild.
And I betcha your brake hoses are way past their "best before" date, too.
sorry, but those pistons are not economically salvageable.
That is, the ring of corrosion pits are right where the square-section rubber seals fit and if you leave them there the damaged surfaces will destroy the seals.
If you grind the surface back smooth the pistons diameter will be sufficiently reduced that the seals won't work properly.
The only good fix is to machine grind them small enough that they can be hard-chromed and then ground back to stock size.
That'll cost WAY more than buying new pistons.
And yeah, if your master cylinder is leaking it too needs a teardown & rebuild.
And I betcha your brake hoses are way past their "best before" date, too.
Thanks fredintoon. They're not deep though. If I just smooth the surface carefully, how can they destroy the rubber? They would not be sticky. Or do you mean that they might cause a leek? Even when I used the c-clamps and pressed really hard, there were no leaks. Thought that was a good sign.
And regarding the m/c, what exactly needs to be changed? I can't find any rebuild kit for my m/c. Neither at xs650shop, heidentuning or mikesxs.
One can see that the brakes have been rebuilt by PO, so the parts can't be that old and should be able to be reused hopefully.
And regarding the m/c, what exactly needs to be changed? I can't find any rebuild kit for my m/c. Neither at xs650shop, heidentuning or mikesxs.
One can see that the brakes have been rebuilt by PO, so the parts can't be that old and should be able to be reused hopefully.
Yes, you need to remove the rubber rings or seals from the caliper body. You need to clean out the groove they fit into. This is one of the major points of doing all this. Over time, brake fluid naturally works it's way into those grooves and under the rubber seals. It dries out and starts forming a crust. Eventually, this builds up enough to push the rubber seal out more. This causes the brake to start sticking on, dragging, and binding.
As for the pistons, I really can't say. If that ring of corrosion is where they pass through the seals, as Fred said, then they may be no good. You'll have to determine if it is.
As for the pistons, I really can't say. If that ring of corrosion is where they pass through the seals, as Fred said, then they may be no good. You'll have to determine if it is.
Hi marp,
perhaps you can get away with polishing out the worst of those corrosion pits with a narrow strip of emery tape, although now you have gotten the pistons moving again so they will move over the sealsI think you will be disappointed. You can only try it and see.
And your master cylinder may not need new parts but it really should be dismantled and cleaned.
perhaps you can get away with polishing out the worst of those corrosion pits with a narrow strip of emery tape, although now you have gotten the pistons moving again so they will move over the sealsI think you will be disappointed. You can only try it and see.
And your master cylinder may not need new parts but it really should be dismantled and cleaned.
A disassembly and thorough cleaning of the MC may or may not fix it, all you can do is try. If it is all crudded up inside, maybe a hard application is forcing some of that crud through the seals and causing them to leak. But hey, a tear down is free, right? Worst case scenario is you'd have to tear it down again and put a rebuild kit in it. But I think that's why most of us are here, we like working on our bikes. If all we wanted to do was ride them and talk about that, we'd be on a different forum, lol.
For buffing piston pit edges I use 1000 grit paper. What 5t sez; yes get behind the rubbers, fingernail is usually enough to get them out. Then you can clean the caliper with brake cleaner, rebuild the MC also, you might get by without parts.
Got it, 5twins. Any tip of how to get the rubber seal up without damaging it? Is it only one rubber seal in each piston hole? Looks like one small and one bigger.
Will take off the m/c tomorrow.
And post some more images of the caliper as well.
Thanks for helping me out. Always fun to learn new stuff about the bike, even though I'm not really in the mood for it right now
Regarding rebuilding kit, I need two of them due to dual discs... But hey, better brakes...
Will take off the m/c tomorrow.
And post some more images of the caliper as well.
Thanks for helping me out. Always fun to learn new stuff about the bike, even though I'm not really in the mood for it right now
Regarding rebuilding kit, I need two of them due to dual discs... But hey, better brakes...
I wouldn't get rebuild kits just yet. See what the results are after all this needed cleaning. I've renovated quite a few old Yamaha brakes and I have never had to replace any seals so far. I'm not saying that the time won't come where I do need seals, just hasn't happened yet is all.
I'm more familiar with the new style caliper. It has only one seal ring in it. Looking at the parts diagram for your older style, it does show two. Apparently Yamaha still sells them too .....
http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-856-W0047-00-00.html
I carefully work my way down between the side of the seal and the caliper body with a little old pocket knife or a dental pick, careful so I don't cut into the seal, and pop it out. Sometimes I'll use two tools, one to pull the seal edge away from the groove wall, the other to stick down in there.
I'm more familiar with the new style caliper. It has only one seal ring in it. Looking at the parts diagram for your older style, it does show two. Apparently Yamaha still sells them too .....
http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-856-W0047-00-00.html
I carefully work my way down between the side of the seal and the caliper body with a little old pocket knife or a dental pick, careful so I don't cut into the seal, and pop it out. Sometimes I'll use two tools, one to pull the seal edge away from the groove wall, the other to stick down in there.
I believe the outer ring is the dust seal/wiper, the part that became the flexible boot type seal on the later calipers.
Gibson
XS650 Addict
Please post some pics when you can. Dual front disks is cool set up. I found that(for me) leaving out the shims for some reason, the brakes don't drag or squeal. I have Mikes XS pads. It may be that the hole in the back of the pad does not fit the little tab on the shim quite right. Without the shims, a piece of silicone tubing around the T shaped key tab on the pads stops them from rattling when idling.
Just removed the seals from one of the halves. Yes, there are one wider inner rubber seal and one less wider outer. Here are some images. The caliper are not cleaned yet but the rubber seals are. It seems that the wider inner seal is okej, but the smaller outer is to damaged to be used again. Don't know why the air nipple have some white oxid on the coned end. Probably it has only been exposed to air, not brake fluid.
I think I will have to invest in some rubebr seals at least. xs650shop and heidintuning in Europe has them as a seal rebuild kit. Don't know it the boat engine company would ship them overseas and if it would be cheaper in the end. I then intend to reuse the pistons and see how it works. At least it will be easier to remove everything again, if necessary...
I have also removed the m/c and lever. Will follow the Clymer manual to disassemble it. Anything particular to watch out for? There seem to be a lot small things to be careful about. Would probably be a good idea to change the seals, since it was leaking when I put hard pressured on the lever.
I think I will have to invest in some rubebr seals at least. xs650shop and heidintuning in Europe has them as a seal rebuild kit. Don't know it the boat engine company would ship them overseas and if it would be cheaper in the end. I then intend to reuse the pistons and see how it works. At least it will be easier to remove everything again, if necessary...
I have also removed the m/c and lever. Will follow the Clymer manual to disassemble it. Anything particular to watch out for? There seem to be a lot small things to be careful about. Would probably be a good idea to change the seals, since it was leaking when I put hard pressured on the lever.
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Thanks, gggGary. And here are som more. Opinions on the caliper rubber seals?
The m/c piston seems a little hammered. Rubber hose seems fine. Don't have any good tool to get the snap ring out though, so will ask around. Any tip? I will play around with some ideas that may work instead of the special pliers. And the adjuster screw are stuck. Hate these kind of screws, so easy to destroy.
Nice tip, Gibson, about silicone around the little T on the pads, instead of using shims. I tried it without one time but noticed this kind of metal to metal sound.
This weekend I'm going away, so it will a good pause to consider which parts to order.
The m/c piston seems a little hammered. Rubber hose seems fine. Don't have any good tool to get the snap ring out though, so will ask around. Any tip? I will play around with some ideas that may work instead of the special pliers. And the adjuster screw are stuck. Hate these kind of screws, so easy to destroy.
Nice tip, Gibson, about silicone around the little T on the pads, instead of using shims. I tried it without one time but noticed this kind of metal to metal sound.
This weekend I'm going away, so it will a good pause to consider which parts to order.
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Hi marp,
a long nosed snap ring pliers like the one that MikesXS sells is about the only way to get at a snap ring that far down a hole.
Mind you, the MikesXS version that I have did not stand up to my perhaps less than careful use.
The pin ends that go into the snap ring broke off the first time I used it.
Perhaps you should print off a copy of MikesXS pliers catalog page, take it to a tool supply shop and say "One of these please, but better quality"?
That jammed brake lever slot-head adjuster screw don't appear to be stock. My lever's adjuster screw has a crosspoint head with a jam nut to keep it where it's set.
What I'd do is file two flats on your screw's threaded end to fit a small wrench, break the screw loose, discard it and put an Allen head fastener and a jam nut in it's place.
a long nosed snap ring pliers like the one that MikesXS sells is about the only way to get at a snap ring that far down a hole.
Mind you, the MikesXS version that I have did not stand up to my perhaps less than careful use.
The pin ends that go into the snap ring broke off the first time I used it.
Perhaps you should print off a copy of MikesXS pliers catalog page, take it to a tool supply shop and say "One of these please, but better quality"?
That jammed brake lever slot-head adjuster screw don't appear to be stock. My lever's adjuster screw has a crosspoint head with a jam nut to keep it where it's set.
What I'd do is file two flats on your screw's threaded end to fit a small wrench, break the screw loose, discard it and put an Allen head fastener and a jam nut in it's place.
Can't find a long nosed snap ringpliers at mikes, only short and/or for external rings. I suppose it also has to be a very thin to get down that far.
Maybe this would work: http://www.biltema.se/sv/Verktyg/Handverktyg/Tang-och-Sax/Lasringstang-2000030777/
God tip about the adjuster screw. Will try.
What I would have like to have for the caliper pistons was this: https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-caliper-piston-detaching-tool
Maybe this would work: http://www.biltema.se/sv/Verktyg/Handverktyg/Tang-och-Sax/Lasringstang-2000030777/
God tip about the adjuster screw. Will try.
What I would have like to have for the caliper pistons was this: https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-caliper-piston-detaching-tool
