Clutch cable housing to long?

[marp68]

Yes, I know the clutch have been covered, but I couldn't find any solution in all threads I read. All seem to cover slipping, neutral problem, gear problem etc. I don't have those problems. My new clutch cable make the clutch work okej regarding engage, disengage, finding neutral and gears.

My problem is that with the new cable I don't seem to be able to adjust the lever to start disengaging the clutch when the lever is closer to the bar. Now it's engage and disengage when the lever is almost out. The lever adjuster is screwed all the way in.

The old one made the clutch engage/disengage well and I could adjust the lever so it didn't disengaged to fast and to late at the bar. More towards the bar though. The only problem was that the wire didn't go easy and smooth anymore, even with lubrication.

Anyway, I installed the new one, adjusting accordingly. The clutch engage and disengage good, it doesn't slip and I can find neutral easily. But now it seems that even with the lever adjustment screw all the way in, the clutch starts to engage with lever almost all the way out, which is not comfortable. And there is no way to adjust the lever so it engage/disenagage when the lever is more towards the bar. Even though it doesn't slip now, this normally happens when the plates are worn and and you start screw out the lever adjuster screw. But since I could adjust the lever to engage/disengage closer to the bar I dont think my plates are worn.

When adjusting the worm gear, I had the cable housing in the upper lever adjusting screw and the screw all the way in, most slack. If I have it completely loose/off and then adjust the worm gear slightly differently, I can't get the cable housing onto the lever adjusting screw. To enable that I first have to back off the worm gear screw, screw the lever adjuster all the way in, put the cable housing onto the lever adjusting part and then readjust the worm gear.

I can't seem to be able to get the lever to engage/disengage the clutch while closer to the bar, which I could with the old cable and which is more comfortable.

Is the cable housing to long or am I missing something here?

I just want to point out that with the old cable I could adjust the lever to start disengaging the clutch when the lever was closer to the bar. Why not now?

 

[marp68]

And as far as I know there is only one way to put back the worm gear to enable the clutch to work at all.

 

[650Skull]

Is the cable housing to long or am I missing something here?

Take the cable back out and check against the old cable for any differences, this should have been done before installation.

Be a good place to start

 

[marp68]

Yes, should have done that. Only problem is I put it in the garbage bin which I emptied last week.

Just want to be sure this is a sign that it's to long before I shorten it.

BTW, the old cable was longer, so they couldn't be compared. It's the relation between the wire and the housing that is important.

So one way could be if somenone has, or could measure, the length difference between the wire and the housing?

 

[marp68]

Guess my question is, would shortering the cable housing make it possible to adjust the lever to pull and release closer to the bar?

I'm not able to create any more slack/free play in the lever, since the lever adjuster is screwed all the way in.All adjustments are max loosiness.

 

[5twins]

Loosen the worm gear adjuster screw. The down side is you won't get as much pushrod thrust or clutch plate separation and the hard-to-find-neutral problem may rear it's ugly head. I don't think shortening the cable sheath will do anything but put more freeplay in the cable which, in turn, you will need to adjust out again. You'll be right back where you started.

I notice you have the early style short armed worm. You might try one of the later longer armed versions .....

This might change the engagement point for you but the down side on these is less pushrod travel than your current short arm.

 

[5twins]

For inner cable lengths, see post #108 here .....

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31554&page=6

 

[fredintoon]

Yes, should have done that. Only problem is I put it in the garbage bin which I emptied last week.
- - - if somenone has, or could measure, the length difference between the wire and the housing?

Hi marp,
you had forgotten the packrat's first rule?
Never throw out anything for at least ten years or two house moves.
Lucky for you it was only two years ago that this packrat replaced his clutch cable.
And luckier yet that last week I was looking for something else and came across it.
Now to the numbers:- the stock clutch cable has 118mm (~ 4-5/8") free movement between it's inner cable and outer sleeve.

 

[marp68]

Interesting 5twin. But does it not also have to do with the amount of freeplay between the wire and the housing? Less will make the clutch to engage/disangage earlier (lever almost out) and more will make it to engage/disengage later (that is, lever closer to the bar). And in my case I've run out of freeplay not caused by old plates but incorrect wire/housing difference. So either by cutting off a few mm of the housing (or wait until the new wire stretches) would give me more freeplay and later engagement/disengagement.

And backing off the wormgear more doesn't do anything, since it's the wire that first starts to pull the wormgear. And there is no more freeplay to give. If I completely remove the cable from the lever adjuster, then adjust the worm gear, I can't hook up the cable at the lever, since there is to little freeplay.

If I'm not missing out on how clutch cables work, which could also be the case

 

[marp68]

fredintoon, thanks for the measurements. How did you measure it, from the end nipple to the beginning of the housing? Don't know how it could have slipped my mind not to save the old one to compare with. I do save a lot, just in case. But sometimes I just decides to free up some space. If you see pictures, you know what I mean... Wish I had more space...

I live in an apartment on the 4th floor and have the bike in the bicycle area. This is where I do the mechanic. And the other image shows where I store a lot of things, like tools, chemical stuff, bolt etc, things for the bike, bicycle, car, kayak, skis, iceskates etc. Even store the winter wheels for the car there. Some things I do there, some in the apartment.

After every ride, I even leave the bike outside for at least two hours, so the bicycle area doesn't smell of exhaust for days. Don't want to loose my indoor parking space...

 

[fredintoon]

Hi marp,
and the bike won't fit in your apartment elevator?
OK, the number you need is the distance the cable will move through it's sheath.
Measuring my own stock cable the distance between fully pulled one way to fully pulled the other is 113mm.
How far will your cable move?
Let's look at the clutch set-up.
Assuming the clutch is properly assembled, the clutch pushrod assembly is good and the worm (I hate that term, it ain't a worm, it's a multi-start threaded linear advancer, but I digress) has the little ball in it's end.
The worm will only fit one way that works. See the photos in this string.
It's operating arm has to be pulled all the way down by it's tension spring.
The cable has to be connected to the operating arm before the cover is fastened to the crankcase.
With the cover in place, set up the clutch adjusting screw by the book and then leave the effin' thing alone because the clutch adjustment is now complete.
Now you should have the clutch cable's other end ready to attach to the clutch lever.
Remove the lever from the lever perch.
Put the cable into the perch adjuster and thread the adjuster wheel to fully slack.
There should be enough slack in the cable that the cable nipple will fit into the lever and the lever put back onto the perch and re-bolted.
Remember, the clutch itself is already adjusted, all that's left is to take up the slack in the cable with the lever's threaded adjuster.

 

[marp68]

Thanks

I did everything by the book, except that I couldnt connect the cable to the perch and the adjuster wheel slot, if I had already connected it to the operator arm/wormgear (strange name indeed). I didnt want to destroy the wire by bending it to much.

However, encouraged by your words, I removed the lever bolt arm and bent it over the lever holder. See image how short the wire is when cable is connected to the operator arm.

And it seems that I now got more slack and that the clutch engage/disengage a little bit earlier. And there is still no problem with slipping, finding neutral or gear.

Since I didn't remove the cover and disconnected the cable, I couldn't measure. But I'll save your measurment for later. I'm to curious not to.

Don't really understand how it could make a difference, but as long as it works i'm happy

 

[5twins]

You appear to have a non-stock adjuster on your perch. That's probably why your cable seems too short.

 

[gggGary]

It's not to hard to shorten the cable's sleeve. A Dremel type tool with a small cut off wheel and lots of careful so you don't nick the core will do it. I have run into a cable with not enough slack and that's what I did. Problem solved.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi marp,
two rhyming couplets, written on a public washroom's wall
This porcelain pedestal's no use at all,
It's seat is too high and it's hole is too small.
And underneath, in a different handwriting:-
To this I must add the obvious retort,
Your backside's too big and your legs are too short.
Or in the case of your clutch cable, I'm with 5twins;
Your cable's OK, your adjuster's too long.

 

[marp68]

Aha, that could be it. Mystery solved, case closed. There is always something with this old bike. I will however also remove the cover and measure the length as well. Just a curious question, how should the OEM adjuster wheel look like and does the perch looks like OEM?

And when the new wire starts to stretch a bit, it will probably be okej.

 

[5twins]

The perch looks original, just that double thumb wheel adjuster is different. A stock one has only one thumb wheel like this .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-M...a2f8901&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=262226327772

 

[marp68]

Thanks, good to know.