Clutch Re-assembly question

[Peejay]

Hi guys,
I have been reassembling the clutch basket on my '81SH and have scoured through the tech bits to find an answer to my question but I haven't found a clear answer yet (although I may have skipped over it.
The question is that I have the plates ready to install but I am looking at 2 parts that came out but I can't remember the order and orientation they were in.
The 2 are a thin pressed steel ring with a lip of about 1mm and a slightly dished steel ring with about 1mm wide with no 'drive' teeth on the O/D or I/D.
The lip on the thin ring seems to fit inside the dished ring
It would seem these have to go on first judging by the fit on the rear of the hub but in what order.
And which way should the 'dish' face. Is it dish in toward the gearbox like ( or dish out towards the gearbox like ).
Is there an assembly picture anywhere?
The attached pic may help my poor description if I attached it correctly, the left hand ring is the dished one and the right hand ring is the one with the lip.
Thanks for any advice
PJ

 

[I am Carbon]

I don't know where they came from.
But I'm quite sure they don't belong in your clutch.
In your clutch should be the 6 fiber plates and 5 steel plates as in your pic
A close up pic of your clutch boss would not hurt to see.
maybe PO has done something wierd
I see you r are from over the pond maybe the Europe bike have something I don't know about

which boss do you have in your bike from pic beow?

 

[ippytattoo]

Actually those look like they could have been the parts of the "spring loaded" bottom steel plate in the clutch boss assembly. Post up a clear close up pic of your inner hub so we can see if the retaining wire was removed along with the associated components.

Clayton

 

[Peejay]

Hi, thanks for a quick response.
The bike is a US import, the clutch boss pics are attached also a pic of the 2 rings that seem to fit together like this according to the wear marks.
I can't see how they would not slip off the hub when the clutch is opened. The I/D is spot on size to fit at the rear
Its a concern but I just noticed another post in the forum mentioning a dished ring on an '81 here http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37776 by myblueXS but he does not mention the lipped ring.
Got me worried now!

 

[Peejay]

Mine is like the 1980 hub picture. It looks like the PO left the retaining wire off. There was no wire when I stripped it down but the groove is in the hub.
Are these wires available?
PJ

 

[Peejay]

I just got thru some measuring and the plain steel ring I have is 122mm dia. whilst the hub is 115mm diameter so a wire ring is not going to hold it in place with a 7mm difference.
I am Carbon shows a pic of a hub with a wire but it seems to have a plate held in position that has drive teeth on the I/D is that correct?
I don't have a spare plate like that, I have a stack that is 6 friction and 5 plain plates nothing else other than the steel ring and the ring with a lip.

What the f**k spec clutch have I got here?
PJ

 

[Airwolfie]

Have a look here mate.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30786&page=5

MY engine build thread.

 

[I am Carbon]

I just got thru some measuring and the plain steel ring I have is 122mm dia. whilst the hub is 115mm diameter so a wire ring is not going to hold it in place with a 7mm difference.
I am Carbon shows a pic of a hub with a wire but it seems to have a plate held in position that has drive teeth on the I/D is that correct?
I don't have a spare plate like that, I have a stack that is 6 friction and 5 plain plates nothing else other than the steel ring and the ring with a lip.

What the f**k spec clutch have I got here?
PJ

it looks like th iner spacing plates are missing and PO did this as a fix

 

[weekendrider]

Ippy is correct those two rings are part of the four pieces needed to make up the "spring loading". IIRC the toothed plate is a different thickness than the other steel plates.
At this point you need to consider Ippy's clutch plate conversion or find someone who has done it and get their spare parts. Putting it back together can be tedious. C-clamps to hold it down so you can get the wire in the notch and it is easy to pull the hoop(that goes in the hole) out of the wire. Or get another clutch. Or maybe someone has a solution to make it work with what you got. This picture shows the parts as it came apart. Wire first so it is on the bottom.

 

[5twins]

You're missing a steel plate and the retaining wire. The steel plate lays over the two thin sheet metal rings and the wire retains the 3 parts .....

Also of note, that bottom steel plate differs slightly from the others. It is a little thicker. The 5 steel plates in the stack should be 1.4mm thick. That bottom spring-loaded plate should be 1.6mm thick. Other than that slight thickness difference, they look the same. I would measure the thickness of all the steel plates you have as the 1.6mm one may be mixed in with them.

As for the order and orientation of the thin rings at the bottom, the flat one with the lip around its I.D. goes on first, lip facing out. Then the domed ring nestles into it. Make the I.D. the high side of the dome and face it in. As you noticed, it will fit around the lip on the other ring like this. Then you place the 1.6mm thick steel plate on these two rings and retain all three with the wire. The wire has loops bent into each end that snap into a hole in the hub to retain it .....

 

[Peejay]

Hey guys, thank you all for the valuable input.
The pictures were really priceless, I found a diagram but it was so fuzzy I did not know what to do next. see attached.
I have a good handle on the way forward now. I have checked the steels and not one is any thicker than another so I need a new plate for the first toothed number, then I can reuse the rest as they are not below spec.
I am guessing I can use virtually any piece of wire that fits the groove nicely.
Much appreciation to the team, I am Carbon, ippytatoo, Airwolfie, weekendrider & 5twins.
Incidentally, I followed the good advice regarding the order of spacers, washers etc in the forum and had one washer left over, see 2nd pic, I guess this was part of the 'fix' previously applied and the PO or previous PO had also over torqued the clutch screws and split one of the bosses, a good friend welded the split,( he said it was 'good' material for welding) I re-tapped the thread and it's looking good.
Finally, if anyone is interested, I found a neat Voltmeter indicator that is a small LED that shows different colors depending on voltage/charge. You guys in the US are probably ahead of the game but who knows see
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190462726857?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Getting it all back together now, its a stock machine but when it's finished I will post some pics, thanks again,
PJ

 

[Peejay]

Sorry, the 2nd pic was wrong, should have been this one,
Any idea where this came from?
PJ

 

[maxton207mph]

That's the lock washer for the chain sprocket nut.

 

[5twins]

That appears to be the lock washer for your countershaft sprocket. I'm hoping you didn't find it in the clutch somewhere, lol.

 

[maxton207mph]

http://www.xs650.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2245&pictureid=20675[/IMG]

 

[maxton207mph]

I don't think my pic came out

 

[Peejay]

Thanks again guys, I guess that sprocket washer must have bounced into the wrong collection during tear down.

 

[Peejay]

To close this item off.
I bought a wire and found the 1.6mm plate in my stack. Assembled as intended and looks good.
Found that I was one steel plate short now in the stack so somehow the clutch had been made to work without the boss assembly together, the clutch springs had been overtorqued to the point where one thread boss was split.
Wire was about $4 & plate was about $8 so not a great expense but now it's back in place how it should be.
thanks for all the help
PJ