Friction plates? Help please

[ZeroShadez]

Ive searched all over.. Can't seem to find a solid answer. I have a 1978 xs650 special. Im pretty sure its the original clutch basket. How many friction plates does it take. Also it always starts and ends with a friction plate correct. I thought i had it installed correctly but the bearing washer needs replacement. when i pulled the cluch perch the pressure plate pushed out sufficiently but the plates only moved a little. From the videos ive seen it looks like the plates move out with the pressure plate fully is that what its supposed to do.
Note: when i was playing with it i didn't have the pressure plate spring screws tight would that prevent the plates from moving with the pressure plate?

 

[Raymond]

I believe your clutch should have seven friction plates but I think the number varied depending on year & type of clutch fitted. There are knowledgeable people around here who can give a more definite answer.

I'm not too sure from your question whether the clutch is freeing properly? The movement on the clutch plates does not need to be very much. Have you tried turning the engine with the clutch pulled in? It should feel free. For example, with bike on centre stand, you could put the bike in gear and turn the back wheel. With the clutch engaged (lever not touched), the engine would turn, pull the clutch lever in and it should be free.

If pulling the clutch lever does not free the clutch, your next step is to adjust at the mechanism on the l/h engine cover - there is plenty of guidance on this forum. Good luck!

 

[5twins]

If your clutch is a '78 original then yes, it would have 7 friction plates. When you pull the clutch in, the plates just float apart, there's nothing pushing them or spreading them evenly. So, when you do this with the bike just sitting there, they may not all spread out evenly. They're all wet with oil usually and that can make them cling together. If the bike were running and the clutch was spinning, the plates would spread out and separate better.

 

[ZeroShadez]

If your clutch is a '78 original then yes, it would have 7 friction plates. When you pull the clutch in, the plates just float apart, there's nothing pushing them or spreading them evenly. So, when you do this with the bike just sitting there, they may not all spread out evenly. They're all wet with oil usually and that can make them cling together. If the bike were running and the clutch was spinning, the plates would spread out and separate better.

The outer basket spins the engine and the inner spins the transmission correct? And i may sound dumb here but when i first took it apart and put it back together i didn't realize i needed a special tool to hold the inner basket in place while tightening that nut. So i just got it hand tight then the inner basket started to spin obviously then it tightened up and stopped spinning so i tightened the nut a little further and i heard a snapping noise and the inner basket started spinning freely again. What did i break and should i be in gear while reassembling clutch?

 

[5twins]

I don't know what you broke, lol. You might want to pull it apart again and see. Maybe it was nothing. Yes, a special tool is needed to hold the inner hub while tightening the nut. In a pinch, you can slip a couple of the steel plates back in and grip them through the slots in the outer basket with some vice grips. Use several pairs spaced evenly all around the hub so you don't have just one pair trying to do all the work. Examine the steel plates afterwards and file off any "teeth" marks the vice grips may have made.

 

[ZeroShadez]

I don't know what you broke, lol. You might want to pull it apart again and see. Maybe it was nothing. Yes, a special tool is needed to hold the inner hub while tightening the nut. In a pinch, you can slip a couple of the steel plates back in and grip them through the slots in the outer basket with some vice grips. Use several pairs spaced evenly all around the hub so you don't have just one pair trying to do all the work. Examine the steel plates afterwards and file off any "teeth" marks the vice grips may have made.

Yea i think that bearing washer thing wasnt in right and when i tightened it it messed it up lol. New one ordered anyway. I hope that was all in looked at everything else i mean if i were to tighten the crap out of it what's the worst that could happen

 

[gggGary]

@650Skull just pointed out to me that 78-on specials had 6 frictions and that multi plate spring assembly.
While the 78-79 Standards kept the 7 plate version.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1978/xs650se-11/clutch
Don't forget the alignment hole, and the dot has to be visible,

 

[gggGary]

@650Skull just pointed out to me that 78-on specials had 6 frictions and that multi plate spring assembly.
While the 78-79 Standards kept the 7 plate version.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1978/xs650se-11/clutch
Don't forget the alignment hole, and the dot has to be visible,

 

[ZeroShadez]

Ill try that then. What do you mean multi plate spring assembly

 

[gggGary]

These parts at the bottom of the stack.

#8 is a fine wire that keeps the other parts together on the inner basket, there are no frictions in this area. Doing some research into machining the inner basket to eliminate this and accept more frictions, see this thread. http://www.xs650.com/threads/interest-in-8-plate-clutch-conversions.56486/page-5

 

[ZeroShadez]

These parts at the bottom of the stack.
View attachment 172305

So 2 toothless plates then a steel plate and then a weird thin thing maybe its not original? Lol mine has nothing like that mine just has the fiber plate then steel ect

 

[5twins]

The parts drawings may show that new style 6 plate clutch on '78 Specials, but I think it's wrong. I've never seen one on anything earlier than an '80 model. The parts diagrams also show BS34 carbs on the '78 and '79 Specials, which is definitely wrong.

 

[ZeroShadez]

The parts drawings may show that new style 6 plate clutch on '78 Specials, but I think it's wrong. I've never seen one on anything earlier than an '80 model. The parts diagrams also show BS34 carbs on the '78 and '79 Specials, which is definitely wrong.

Is there a number on the basket or somthing so i can know for sure lol?

 

[gggGary]

that special hub looks like this

Note the bottom is not flat has a recess for the two spring plates.
Pic of those parts

 

[ZeroShadez]

that special hub looks like this
View attachment 172317
Note the bottom is not flat has a recess for the two spring plates.
Pic of those parts
View attachment 172318

Thats very useful information. I dont think mine has that but im going to look first thing when i get home lol

 

[5twins]

There probably is a number on it but I don't know what it is, lol. It's easy enough to I.D. it just by looking at it though. The bottom steel plate won't slide out because it's held in place by that retaining wire .....

Both ends of the retaining wire have little loops bent into them that snap into a hole in the hub. You can see them sticking through .....

The retaining nut set-up is also different. It doesn't use a normal lock washer but rather one of those kind that fold up against the side of the nut .....

It also has a couple little tabs that fit and lock into slots in the hub. An earlier hub won't have those slots for the tabs.

 

[ZeroShadez]

There probably is a number on it but I don't know what it is, lol. It's easy enough to I.D. it just by looking at it though. The bottom steel plate won't slide out because it's held in place by that retaining wire .....
Yeah there was no special folding tabbed washer. But i did order one thinking it needed it. I don't think it had any wire but im going to find out and get back to you guys thank you

Both ends of the retaining wire have little loops bent into them that snap into a hole in the hub. You can see them sticking through .....

The retaining nut set-up is also different. It doesn't use a normal lock washer but rather one of those kind that fold up against the side of the nut .....

It also has a couple little tabs that fit and lock into slots in the hub. An earlier hub won't have those slots for the tabs.

There probably is a number on it but I don't know what it is, lol. It's easy enough to I.D. it just by looking at it though. The bottom steel plate won't slide out because it's held in place by that retaining wire .....

Both ends of the retaining wire have little loops bent into them that snap into a hole in the hub. You can see them sticking through .....

The retaining nut set-up is also different. It doesn't use a normal lock washer but rather one of those kind that fold up against the side of the nut .....

It also has a couple little tabs that fit and lock into slots in the hub. An earlier hub won't have those slots for the tabs.