Frontend issues/questions: 1973 tx650

[chopit25]

I have a 1973 TX650 that is just about finished. I have been working on this bike for almost two years off and on. it is a complete bike and i have ridden it about 25-40 miles around the neighborhood. I did install brand new fork tubes and seals because it had fork tubes on it that were ten inches longer than stock and i did not like that.
anyways, the brand new fork seals started leaking before I even rode the bike and I thought it was cheap seals. I also get a little pogo'ing feeling, not too bad but definitely not cool. I was told that I most likely have wore out dampners from the PO using the long fork tubes. If I do have wore out dampners, what can I do about this? I have looked online and finding another complete set of 34mm forks from a 73 is not easy! Plus I have brand new tire, neck bearings, brakes, speedo and everything already there.
any advice is appreciated.

 

[chizler62]

Did you protect the seals with the packaging?

If the bushings and the piston part of the damper rods are worn. You can tell by jacking up the bike under motor till the front wheel is off the ground. Grab wheel and rock back and forth towards the bike then away. It'll have some play but you'll know if its worn.

I'd check the rebound holes in the damper rods. They may have been drilled larger.

Measure the tubes themselves. I've seen a few aftermarket tubes have coating problems that offer poor seal fitment.

Did you just measure the oil in a measuring cup or did you use a fork oil height gauge?

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[chopit25]

I don't understand the protecting the seals with packaging? I was gentle with them.
I filled the oil with a cup. I was reading that you can measure the levels from the top but did not try that.
I did buy what are supposed to be better seals but I haven't installed them yet.

 

[gggGary]

What he said about wear in the bushing at the top of the lowers especially with the extended (Franks) tubes there is a lot of stress at that point and I'll be a dollar to a donut he chrome was worn off the franks tubes at the slide area. I have had a least 10 sets of franks tubes on bikes I have bought, EVERY SET were worn through the chrome!
Could be seals also, I have had some aftermarket seals leak immediately. FYI yamaha still sells the OEM seals and they are not very expensive. And yes you can easily wreck seals installing them. While doing a roadstar fork last week I noted Yamaha requires lithium soap based grease as an install lube and indeed the factory seals still had lithium grease in the recess between the lips of the seal. They also note the tubes are to be lubed with oil before sliding the seals down in place.
Also yes carefully check the "new" fork tubes for smoothness, no nicks, dents etc. Yamaha says use the plastic bag the seal comes in like a condom to protect the seal as it goes on the end of the tube. I am not sure I would do that.....

 

[chopit25]

I will install the new seals and see if that works. When I did the last ones I just rubbed a little fork oil on them. Those were from mikes but the new ones are from 650central. Guess I better look into a measuring tool for the fork oil as well.

 

[chizler62]

Often , especially with a new tube, there are sharp edges on the top of the tube. They don't feel sharp enough just rubbing your finger across them, but they are. Remember the seal is under a enormous amount of pressure during compression so the slightest abnormality in the surfaces are magnified.

The way to avoid any seal install issues simply leave the thick grease, if any, on the seal. Insure the entire tube is clean, free of nicks and debris. Even dead bugs can tear a seal. Wipe fork oil on entire tube. Take a razor blade and cut out the clear plastic from seal PACKAGING. Use plasic simular to a condom being sure it covers all the edges, grooves etc. If packaging isnt useable just use a heavy Ziploc bag cutting the lock part off. Lube seal itself with fork oil slide down tube over protective plastic.

After sliding seal down almost in place, slide an old seal on too. Use the old seal to drive the new seal in place.

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[retiredgentleman]

chopit25;

I'll tell you something dumb that I did. When I first replaced the fork seals, I put the new seals in upside down Needless to say they leaked!! On the second set of seals I learned my lesson and they have been leak free for about the last 7 years.

I'm sure you did it the correct way, but just something to be aware of.

 

[tonyc]

R.G. I am laughing right now because I did the same thing. Tony C

 

[5twins]

Personally, I do my seal work with the lower removed and clamped in a vice. Trying to remove and replace seals with the fork still assembled is the hard way. But then again, some people like doing things the hard way, lol.

 

[chopit25]

5twins, I have always removed the lowers to replace seals as well. I can't even imagine how much of a pain in the ass it would be to do it while fully assembled!
What is that set up in the second picture?

 

[5twins]

That's my "swabber" to clean out the insides of forks. You feed the end of a rag through the little loop on the end of the rod, wrap the rest of the rag all around the rod, dip it in solvent, then "swab" away .....

Among my other fork "special tools" are an aluminum angle protector for the top of the lower and a big old square shank screwdriver with the tip filed round to pry the seals out .....

 

[chopit25]

Yeah I want that aluminum angle protector! That could have really came in handy before. I am making me one of those tomorrow! lol
Thanks for the idea!

 

[chizler62]

You have a much higher risk of damaging a seal that way. It can be done of coarse. I believe its a hour job for seal replacement on all xs650 and even XT650 forks.

With that said....they do make a seal spreading tool so you can easily remove the seal quickly without the possiblity of any damage. Believe theyre around $15

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[chopit25]

Chizler is that a motorcycle specific tool or could I ask for that at a harbor freight or automotive store? I figured there was a tool designed for that but I have never seen one.

 

[chizler62]

I looked at harbor freight web site. They offer one. #95987 unsure if the collets are the right size. I have a OEM Honda kit that has 20 different sizes.
I sure you could look on eBay.

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[louis]

From what I am reading on this forum, my options are very limited for putting longer forks on my '73, is that right?

I was hoping to put six-overs on it eventually but don't like my chances of getting anything in Australia.

 

[Primetime]

Louis, I happen to have a 73 tx650 as well and just took off the king/queen seat. If you are still interested, let me know and I can get you pics of the seat and pan. I believe it is already set up to fit this bike's standard seat attachment! I also have some extended forks that I plan on replacing with stock tubes. I'd be willing to sell those as well but not sure if shipping is worth it??