Head decked .020 what pistons

Bratxschop

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so I had some head work done on my 74 xs. Tx whatever. The head was so warped from a blown head gasket that the machinist had to deck it .20. I know that the most you should do is .10 or the piston the head clearance will get jacked up. I’m rebuilding my first motor. I would like to use some 1st over Pistons. Not sure what Pistons to use for that. Could I still use a high dome piston? I want some longevity in the motor. Has anyone ran into this issue? If so what was your result to fix it? Sorry I know there is a lot of questions in here. Thanks guys
 
One of the head gasket manufacturers makes a slightly thicker gasket for the XS and this may be the choice for you. I cannot remember who but I believe one of the regular posters pointed this out in the last 12 months. They will best guide you on this matter.
 
Right, Paul, Athena head gaskets are 1.5 mm. (.060") thick, ~.017" thicker than OE. OP, deck height is deck height, doesn't matter if you get more at the top of the barrels or at the base. If you want to use an OEM Yamaha or OE spec Vesrah head gasket, just double up two base gaskets.

But that isn't usually necessary on an XS650 motor with the deck lowered only .020". First off: don't worry about valve-to-piston clearance. You'll have plenty. The potential problem is squish clearance--clearance between piston edges and the squish band (the chamfered edge of the combustion chamber). Here's how to check it. First bring the pistons about halfway up the cylinders. Using a dab of heavy grease to hold them in place, lay a short piece of .050" rosin core solder on the exhaust side and the intake side of each piston, pointing toward and just touching the cylinder wall. Remove the valves and assemble the head, camshaft, and rocker cover on the motor. (Don't bother with cam timing; valves are out, the cam is just there to keep the cam chain from locking up). Slowly turn the motor through TDC. Measure the thickness of the solder strips where the pistons have pressed them against the squish band. If they're .040" thick or more, you've got no worries. Remember: lowering the deck will retard cam timing a bit, and any cam-driven ignition with it. You may have to get creative if you run out of advance side ignition adjustment.

BTW the head didn't warp because the gasket blew; the gasket blew because the head was warped. I've seen XS650 rocker covers warped due to cave man maintenance, but never an XS650 head. There's a first time for everything, I guess.
 
Grizild1, thank you for that. Can I just confirm some details please. Is the head reassembled (minus the valves) using an old head gasket or a new one? Should the head be torqued down as per specification? If done using a new head gasket then isn't this effectively written off because the head must be removed to reassemble the valves and then another new gasket must be used for final assembly?

Thank you for your advice.
 
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Paul, in my experience it doesn't matter much which you use; OEM and Vesrah OE quality head gaskets don't compress enough to make much of a difference. A new head gasket should be reusable after inspection even if spec torque is applied, but you shouldn't need to tighten the fasteners more than 15 ftlbs. or so. A few tips: I remove and polish the dowels, clean the dowel seats carefully, and apply a dab of assembly lube to reduce any sticking there, and give the head and rocker cover a few light taps with a wooden drift to be sure the dowels are well seated.
 
Right, Paul, Athena head gaskets are 1.5 mm. (.060") thick, ~.017" thicker than OE. OP, deck height is deck height, doesn't matter if you get more at the top of the barrels or at the base. If you want to use an OEM Yamaha or OE spec Vesrah head gasket, just double up two base gaskets.

But that isn't usually necessary on an XS650 motor with the deck lowered only .020". First off: don't worry about valve-to-piston clearance. You'll have plenty. The potential problem is squish clearance--clearance between piston edges and the squish band (the chamfered edge of the combustion chamber). Here's how to check it. First bring the pistons about halfway up the cylinders. Using a dab of heavy grease to hold them in place, lay a short piece of .050" rosin core solder on the exhaust side and the intake side of each piston, pointing toward and just touching the cylinder wall. Remove the valves and assemble the head, camshaft, and rocker cover on the motor. (Don't bother with cam timing; valves are out, the cam is just there to keep the cam chain from locking up). Slowly turn the motor through TDC. Measure the thickness of the solder strips where the pistons have pressed them against the squish band. If they're .040" thick or more, you've got no worries. Remember: lowering the deck will retard cam timing a bit, and any cam-driven ignition with it. You may have to get creative if you run out of advance side ignition adjustment.

BTW the head didn't warp because the gasket blew; the gasket blew because the head was warped. I've seen XS650 rocker covers warped due to cave man maintenance, but never an XS650 head. There's a first time for everything, I guess.


Ok! Thanks for clearing that up. I kept hearing about checking piston squish clearance but had no idea on how to do it. So thank you! Do you have any suggestions on Pistons? I read one thread where someone said that if you use standard Pistons you won’t exceed 45hp. Not sure if that’s true or not. I’ve got this motor rephased with a 5th gear o.d and the head has a port and polish. Some minor work I believe but I would like to get some decent power out of it. Could I use a high compression piston?
 
The only high compression pistons I know of start at 77.5 mm., which bumps displacement to 700 cc., which is close to the limit of the standard liners. Hoos Racing sells J.E. pistons which will give you 700 cc. at close to stock compression, or higher if you use them with your lowered head and stock gaskets. If you intend to ride in the real world, you may want to keep static CR moderate, less than 10:1. Two reasons for that: heat and availability of high octane fuel.

Horsepower numbers can be tossed around all day and half the time they're meaningless. So what are we talking about when we say 45 hp? Gross power at the crank? Net power at the wheel? Anyway, with a Shell #1 cam (mrriggs sells them for rephased motors), 77.5 mm. pistons at moderate compression, well tuned performance carburetors, properly tuned exhaust system, and head properly ported, you should be able to realize net horsepower in the mid to high fifties.

BTW the warped head makes sense now. Sounds like whoever did your head did it the right way, welding in fresh material and reshaping the ports, not just hogging them out. It's hard to maintain temperature when fresh material is welded into the ports, and if the head cools too much it can warp when heat is localized in welding. No harm done, since milling off .020" gave you a flat surface.

Anyway, be sure to have the outer edges of the flywheelsare tack welded. That's all you need to do to keep the flywheels from walking Sure, one guy who hawks rephase jobs claims that you have to weld everything together, inside and outside, as the crank is assembled. Guess what? One: XS650 race motors are not built that way and never were, and Two: Internal welding turns your crank into Kleenex (use it once and throw it away), because, unlike a correctly welded crank, one with internal welds on the flywheels can never be taken apart again.



. .
 
Edit: Duh, should have written "outer edges of the crank pins," but I guess you got the meaning.

Haha you are good. Thank you. So hopefully with my head ported a decent exhaust and some good carbs maybe I can make 45 hp at the wheel. Hugh redid my crank. Which is welded end to end I believe. Oh well. Looks like a good job! I was happy. I will be putting the bike on the dyno when I am finished. So hopefully this rebuild pays off!
 
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