Help a moron; blew up my motor, how far do I need to go

[jazzmans]

Hmph. so I blew up my goddamn xs.
let me explain. I was on the freeway, rolling along, shifted into fifth, and blammo! motor lost most of its power, tons and tons of smoke out one exhaust. Pulled over and watched blue smoke pour out of one exhaust. Tried to ride it off the freeway (DOH!) and the bike stalled out.

now I can see what looks like a piston oil ring through the plug hole on that side, and here's what my first oil filter and drian plugs look like...

My question is, how much of a rebuild am I looking at? top end and bottom end?

the engine failure is due to oil starvation, the pipes on the bike block the oil dipstick (new pipes are due to be here today to solve this problem) but It seems I ran the bike out of oil, (far less then a quart drained out of the plugs).


the existing pistons are new, mikes xs 2 thousands over. I'm thinking of going with forged 750 pistons (mikes or xs650?) and the larger head but what do I need to do check on the bottom end?

faaaaaahk.
Help a moron, give me some guidance on how to go about this, and what I need to have checked.

 

[weekendrider]

That has got to be the most messed up filter I've ever seen.
I would break the cases just to clean it up if nothing else.

 

[CDNTX650]

Rip it all down i would....who knows whats in there now or what the bottom end looks like. How the hell did the oil level get so low? Burning? leak?

 

[jazzmans]

How, I dunno, didn't burn any, (i.e. no smell of burning oil, no smoke at all until the fateful day) leak? dunno, no leaks under the bike, a bit of oil on the top of the head and in the fins, but nothing major, no oil ever got on me or my boots.

I'd estimate I put 300-500 miles on the bike, as I was working through most of the time with carb or electrical issues. I truly don't know.

PO was anything but a idiot, bike only had a couple hundred miles on it since the rebuild when I bought it, as PO had been trying to get a 2-1 intake with carb dialed in.


Unfortunately, I only checked the oil 1x, three weeks ago becuase I had the exhaust off to get to the right hand carb, at that time, it read really low at first, but then when I got the bike verticle it read sort-of low, (I suspect now I scraped the dipstick along a side the second time and got a false reading) when I solved the previous carb issue, I was so excited I forgot to add any oil. I had new exhaust ordered & figured I'd be ok a week longer. . . .


damnnit.

what's the orange plastic from?

Theres both ferrous and non-ferrous metal in the sludge, I haven't removed the oil screen at the bottom yet, working on removing the engine from the frame.

suggestions on what to have checked once I open her are appreciated.

 

[lassenc]

Orange plastic is probably silicone gasket. I'd do the top end, then change filters and oils. Do 100kms, change oil, clean filters, see what's up.

Might be a good argument for going with the filter conversion

 

[littlebill31]

That sludge on the drain plug looks to be more than a 800-900 miles.

 

[BigBoreSwede]

This is why we ride old bikes......we don´t need a bad excuse to fiddle on our rides like all the "rocket riders" do

Sorry, Jazzman. I really feel sorry for you. I know, it´s not fun but this is one side of our intrest.

Best of luck!

/BigBoreSwede

 

[hooktool]

You can't just do the top end. The lower end has little pieces of metal ALL through it. The crank may be OK, roller bearings are pretty tough, but you have to clean it out.

John

 

[lassenc]

Fresh oil like I said. When he has top end off he can flush some of it, if there is any. We don't know the damage yet. Doing the bottom end now too is a step too far, might as well try to flush it out like I said. Worst case is that he has to do the bottom end anyway, though I doubt it.

 

[pyroman]

Just do it once, Do it right. Top and bottom. IMO.

 

[jazzmans]

what you cannot see in the pictures, is the 'sludge' that's on the magnetic drain plugs is all metal. some serious grinding action went on. I've got the motor out and on the bench, but thats as far as I"m going today. tomorrow after work I'll remove the oil screen (where is it?) and begin the teardown. with the fucking enormous quantities of crap in the oil, I'd suspect everything right now. I'll start with the top end, but I'm fairly resigned that I've fucked up the big-end bearings (that's the right words right?)

I've never seen a motor with this much metal bits in it before, but I've also never blown up a motor before.


El Diablo is definitely out on this ride.......
faaaaahk.

any opinions on big bore kit?

keep em coming guys, the words of encouragement are helping..

 

[Arkus]

Just do it once, Do it right. Top and bottom. IMO.

This right here! Don't take a chance if you have any feeling that the bottom may be in need as well. Go ahead a do the top and bottom and heck you mentioned it why not go ahead and do a 750 kit if you've been thinking about it.

 

[lassenc]

Please elaborate why you guys think it is such a chance to take not doing the bottom end?

What could go wrong? It's flushed, oil is changed after 100kms. There are no exessively large pieces in the oilfilter from what I can see. Nitty gritty yeah, but you will find that on most engines.

Why not flush it out, change the oil after 100kms and then assess?

He can shell out now for "doing the big end", but it might be totally unnessecary to do so. And then if it is nessecary, fine, spend the money. If you found chips from the teeth of the gearbox I'd open it. But not for that.

 

[member3480]

Did you pull the head to see if the piston blew apart or is it just rings that let loose. From that filter picture you better clean and check everything looks like piston pieces. How many miles on motor and how fast were you going.Good think bottom end didn't lock up.HEY GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[pyroman]

Please elaborate why you guys think it is such a chance to take not doing the bottom end?

What could go wrong? It's flushed, oil is changed after 100kms. There are no exessively large pieces in the oilfilter from what I can see. Nitty gritty yeah, but you will find that on most engines.

Why not flush it out, change the oil after 100kms and then assess?

He can shell out now for "doing the big end", but it might be totally unnessecary to do so. And then if it is nessecary, fine, spend the money. If you found chips from the teeth of the gearbox I'd open it. But not for that.

I guess its My 30 plus years as a helicopter mechanic. Anytime I see that much debris come out of an internal combustion powerplant, i hear a little voice say "thats fucked up".
Seriously, if there is damage in the bottom end, the next failure may be in rush hour, with a Blue haired Grandma driving a Caddy right on His rear fender. A seized bottom end could prove fatal. As I said , IMO.

 

[gmiller217]

Just do it once, Do it right. Top and bottom. IMO.

x2 Why do just the top just to turn around and do it all over again ... you're going to have the engine out anyway might as well get it done right the FIRST time

 

[gmiller217]

Please elaborate why you guys think it is such a chance to take not doing the bottom end?

What could go wrong? It's flushed, oil is changed after 100kms. There are no exessively large pieces in the oilfilter from what I can see. Nitty gritty yeah, but you will find that on most engines.

Why not flush it out, change the oil after 100kms and then assess?

He can shell out now for "doing the big end", but it might be totally unnessecary to do so. And then if it is nessecary, fine, spend the money. If you found chips from the teeth of the gearbox I'd open it. But not for that.

I guess its My 30 plus years as a helicopter mechanic. Anytime I see that much debris come out of an internal combustion powerplant, i hear a little voice say "thats fucked up".
Seriously, if there is damage in the bottom end, the next failure may be in rush hour, with a Blue haired Grandma driving a Caddy right on His rear fender. A seized bottom end could prove fatal. As I said , IMO.

again x2 on pyroman's quote, except I am a 25 year ASE certified Master auto technician. ... IMHO do it once the right way the first time

 

[BigBoreSwede]

Yeah....I´m with Pyroman.

Not that I can say -"Hey, listen to me....do this or do that"-...... but if your going to do a total re-build off the top end, witch sounds neccesary you would most suretanley feel like a total idiot if the bottom end lets you down due to some damage that you did not give a shit about while you had the engine on the bench.

If the engine ran fine and sounded go before the blow-out, and then all of a sudden go "BANG" something is really f-cked up.


If your engine is "salad", XS650.com is the right place for you
/BigBoreSwede

 

[littlebill31]

I would do the bottom end simply for one reason. There was thread on here a month or so ago, I can't locate it, about an unidentified object found while changing the oil. The bike was running fine, even with half of a gear floating around in the case.
You really want to ride around wondering if it's ok or know that's it's ok?

This: http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5388

 

[hooktool]

Fresh oil like I said. When he has top end off he can flush some of it, if there is any. We don't know the damage yet. Doing the bottom end now too is a step too far, might as well try to flush it out like I said. Worst case is that he has to do the bottom end anyway, though I doubt it.

How many have you just "flushed out" ? The only way to find out if you got it all is when it locks up after you just rebuilt the top end, or breaks a gear.

John