How to index the auto advance unit

[Joel]

My new auto advance unit has an index mark and a rotation direction arrow (Mikes advance and rod, bushings, etc, for Pamco ign unit). But what do i align the index mark with on the engine? Do i set the engine at top dead center, and what do i align the mark with? Couldnt get any instructions from Mike's. Clymer manual doesnt help.

 

[5twins]

You don't align it with anything on the engine, you align the little disc slash mark with the advance unit slash mark (yellow arrows) .....

 

[Joel]

yeah, i figured that part. but when i tighten the advance unit onto the cam with the big slotted nut, doesnt it have to be aligned so that the Pamco rotor on the other side is in the right position for spark? the whole advance rod is floating free in the cam until the slotted nut it secured.

 

[5twins]

There is a locating pin in the cam and a location slot on the back of the advance unit. It only goes onto the cam one way. The pin locks the advance on the cam in the correctly timed position. Here's the pin slot on the back of the advance unit .....

 

[Joel]

The advance unit from Mike's doesnt have the slot. The only thing that makes sense is to set engine at TDC and line up the auto advance unit index mark somewhere stationary, like straight up or at a mating mark on the engine parts. Wish Mike's would talk to me. Cant believe they sent those parts with no instructions.

 

[azman857]

Hmmmm The unit I got from Mikes had the had the slot.

 

[Joel]

I do appreciate your help anyway. Thanks.

 

[5twins]

It has to have a locating slot or you can't use it. There has to be a way to lock it in position and in time on the cam. If you can't mount it in the right position, the timing will be off.

 

[Joel]

WAIT. it does have a slot. But there's nothing on the cam to mate with the slot. No key or pin or anything. Cam has the right threads though. It's an '80 engine that had the original electronic ignition, so there was never an auto advance on the cam. Back to the drawing board.

 

[5twins]

There's a hole in the cam for a locating pin. It's the same pin as used for locating the little advance disc and points cam on the advance rod. If you bought the complete Pamco kit from Mike's, I would think a pin would be included.

 

[Joel]

No, no hole or anything in the camshaft. I guess i'll have to improvise something.
Mike's was out of the kit because they were out of Pamco units. They had no story and no indication of when or if they would get more. So i ordered the individual parts for the advance stuff from Mikes and then ordered the basic Pamco ignition from PamcoPete. unfortunately that left me with no instructions on the advance parts.

 

[pamcopete]

joel,

1. There is a hole in the cam for the locating pin.
2. You cannot just improvise something because the location of the advance plate is precise and it cannot be allowed to move.

3. There is a list of parts that you need posted on the home page of the web sit www.yamahaxs650.com that includes the part number for the pin.

4. There are complete installation instructions on the web site www.yamahaxs650.com including specific instructions for the advance mechanism and the advance rod and how to install it.
5. The instructions are complete with pictures.
6. You should have received a notice of shipment for the PAMCO with referrence to the web site.

Here is a picture from the instructions showing the pin in question and the advance plate.

If you canot see the hole for the pin, it is possible that the cam shaft seal has been replaced at some point and was not installed correctly and is covering the hole. Here is a picture of a correctly installed cam shaft seal;

Notice the recess for the seal.

 

[bloodthirstysystem]

You don't align it with anything on the engine, you align the little disc slash mark with the advance unit slash mark (yellow arrows) .....

wow, never knew about this before.. how much of a difference would it make running the slash marks 180 apart?

 

[5twins]

On a Pamco, none really because it fires every 180° but on the original points set-up, it would throw your timing off 180°.

 

[pamcopete]

bloodthirsty,

No difference at all with the PAMCO but total failure with points. There are several items in the advance system that can be installed 180 degrees out. You can have any two of them out by 180 because the net result is 180 + 180 = 360 which puts everything back in the correct place.

Here is a little graph that shows the combinations and which ones will work. "0" means its out 180, "1" means it's correct.

You can also add to this list the possibility of switching the points wires, or the plug wires. If you do both, then no problem. Or switch one of them and one of the pins or the disk and you're back in sync!!

As you can see from the graph, there are 8 possibilities with 4 of them working. Combined with the plug wires for 16 possibiliites with 8 that will work and add in the points wires and you get 32 with 16 that will work!!

So, if you think that your timing is 180 out, just change any one of the items and you are back in business!!

 

[Yamakazi]

Getting here late, but thought I'd throw in a few photos...




1st photo: New unit from Mikes.
2nd photo:Old unit on left (with "expanded" pin slot), and Mikes on the right.
(Note - there's a scratch on the bottom/right corner of Mikes plate...ignore it, it's not a "mark".)

 

[Joel]

Thanks, PamcoPete.

I am at work, but i will check on the seal-covering-the-index-hole. The seal location looked ok, but i will eyeball it tonight at home. If the seal is too far out it could be difficult to move it in deeper. I dont know if it can be pushed in further.

 

[Travis]

Wish Mike's would talk to me. Cant believe they sent those parts with no instructions.

If all you bought were replacement parts, I wouldn't expect instructions. When you buy new spark plugs for you car, they don't come with instructions on how to install them. Same can be said for pretty much all replacement parts for your car. They expect you to have a manual or be able to figure it out. Motorcycles are no different. If you bought the parts from Yamaha would you expect instructions? Not trying to be a jerk about that.. Just sayin'

 

[pamcopete]

Travis,

A full set of instructions are available for the advance mechanism on my site www.yamahaxs650.com . When you buy a PAMCO kit, there is a little sticky note in the box that directs you to the site for installation instructions. I will suggest to them that the are free to include the same sticker in shipments of the advance mechanism even if it is not part of a PAMCO kit.

 

[Travis]

Good idea. That would definitely help out a few people. I was speaking about replacement parts in general though, not just about the advance unit or the advance unit you get with a PAMCO kit... We expect instructions with a PAMCO kit because it's a new part. If I buy just an advance unit or any other replacement part from mikes, I wouldn't expect instructions. It's nice that they are available on your site for the advance unit if I ever buy one.

I guess the reason I brought it up is that I've read many times how people wish this or that from Mikes came with instructions, and I was trying to make a point that most replacement parts usually don't come with instructions. If they do, then consider it a bonus. That mentality from the car world just doesn't seem to translate in the XS650 world.