Idle goes up after warm up

birdog4549

81 XS-H Special II
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I took the carbs off and flushed them out and put in new diaphragms. the good news is the bike runs the same. the bad news is the bike runs the same! When the engine is fully warm after about a 20 mile ride the idle goes up to about 3,000. when it was just started and choke was off it idles about 1,800. I did turn the stop screw down. I haven't run it yet but that wouldn't "fix" anything if the speed changes just lower it overall. Where is a place to start? If I am pulling up to a stop sign it may stay around 2,000 but if you rev it a little it stays at 3,000. Lastly, when I pull into the driveway at the end of 20 miles it just goes up to 3 without any revving. seems like the hotter it gets the faster it idles up to about 3,000
 
probably help if you shared a bit more info on your bike, i see its a 81, so you have a std ignition, carbs? or maybe a pamco iggy? my 1st guess is you have atu issues, though 1st we need to know if you have a atu. cheers

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Start by syncing the carbs. If the idle speed can't be turned down any lower then 1800 cold, the carbs are probably out of sync.
 
I would recommend you take the carbs off the bike, and have a close look at them on the bench. You may have one or both butterflys staying too far open. This could be due to the carbs not sync'd properly.

Turn out the throttle speed screw until it can no longer contact the throttle stop, i.e. the butterflys will now be allowed to close fully against the carb bodies. If you can see a small bypass hole at the top of the carb throat, on either carb, it means the carbs are not sync'd/ and butterflys may be not centred in carb body.

Adjust the sync screw, between the carbs, until both butterflys are fully closed against the carb bodies. If you can't achieve both butterflys fully closed, it means the butterflys are not centred in the carb bodies. To centre them, you need to loosen the butterfly screws, and open/close the throttle several times, so that the carb body forces the butterflys to centre themselves. With the throttle fully closed, tighten the butterfly screws.

Now, you want to cut a small strip of paper about 3/4" wide and 3" long to use as a feeler gauge. Adjust the throttle speed screw, so that the paper feeler gauge just slides under the left butterfly with a small amount of drag. Then use the feeler gauge under the right butterfly, and adjust the sync screw so that you have the same drag as the left side.

Put the carbs back on the engine. You should do a "dead cylinder" method to adjust the mixture screws on each carb.

The paper feeler gauge will have the carbs very closely sync'd, but best to now use a u-tube manometer to do the final sync.
 
probably help if you shared a bit more info on your bike, i see its a 81, so you have a std ignition, carbs? or maybe a pamco iggy? my 1st guess is you have atu issues, though 1st we need to know if you have a atu. cheers

Posted via Mobile

My bike is stock assuming the PO didn't change anything but it doesn't look like he did. the carbs are the BS34 CV carbs that come with that model. I had them on the bench and the butterflies are as close as they can be with a visual/paper test. I have not built the sync guage with the tranny fluid and tubing but I intend to. I installed new manifolds from 650 Central with the vacuum tubes and they are sealed off with caps. I have access to the pilot adjustment screws as I pulled the brass plugs.

I don't know what an atu is! What is it?
 
I would recommend you take the carbs off the bike, and have a close look at them on the bench. You may have one or both butterflys staying too far open. This could be due to the carbs not sync'd properly.

Turn out the throttle speed screw until it can no longer contact the throttle stop, i.e. the butterflys will now be allowed to close fully against the carb bodies. If you can see a small bypass hole at the top of the carb throat, on either carb, it means the carbs are not sync'd/ and butterflys may be not centred in carb body.

Adjust the sync screw, between the carbs, until both butterflys are fully closed against the carb bodies. If you can't achieve both butterflys fully closed, it means the butterflys are not centred in the carb bodies. To centre them, you need to loosen the butterfly screws, and open/close the throttle several times, so that the carb body forces the butterflys to centre themselves. With the throttle fully closed, tighten the butterfly screws.

Now, you want to cut a small strip of paper about 3/4" wide and 3" long to use as a feeler gauge. Adjust the throttle speed screw, so that the paper feeler gauge just slides under the left butterfly with a small amount of drag. Then use the feeler gauge under the right butterfly, and adjust the sync screw so that you have the same drag as the left side.

Put the carbs back on the engine. You should do a "dead cylinder" method to adjust the mixture screws on each carb.

The paper feeler gauge will have the carbs very closely sync'd, but best to now use a u-tube manometer to do the final sync.

Agreed, I had them out and did the paper test. I will be making the manometer soon so will use that. Can't respond to the butterflies being centered but they looked good and the paper test gave the impression they were so close to each other only a manometer will know a difference. I will build one by next weekend. the mixture screws you speak of, are they the ones under the brass plugs. I did pull the brass ones out during the carb cleaning. I will have to re-read the "dead cylinder" thing.
 
Agreed, I had them out and did the paper test. I will be making the manometer soon so will use that. Can't respond to the butterflies being centered but they looked good and the paper test gave the impression they were so close to each other only a manometer will know a difference. I will build one by next weekend. the mixture screws you speak of, are they the ones under the brass plugs. I did pull the brass ones out during the carb cleaning. I will have to re-read the "dead cylinder" thing.

Yes, the mixture screws came with a little cover over them, so remove them if they are still there.

If the paper feeler gauge test was done right with equal drag, and the butterflies are closing fully, then you should be able to have the engine idle at 1200 rpm or even much lower.

The "dead cylinder" is not hard to do. I recommend you use a spare spark plug that you can make up with an alligator clip and a short piece of wire, as shown in my pic. For the cylinder that you want to be dead, disconnect its spark plug wire, and connect the spare plug to the spark plug wire. This is done so that the ignition coil has its normal electrical path for the high voltage, and prevents damage to the ignition coil. Make sure the alligator clip stays clipped to one of the engine cooling fins.

Good idea to warm up the engine, running both cylinders, for a few minutes before you start. Then shut off the engine, and install the spare spark plug/wire/alligator clip. You should have a fan blowing air across the engine to help with cooling. If you remove the single bolt at the back of the fuel tank, you can then lift the back end of the fuel tank upward slightly, giving enough room to use a small screwdriver to adjust the mixture screw.

To do the "dead cylinder method" you must adjust the "idle mixture screw" (pilot screw) as well as the "idle speed screw". You should be able to adjust the engine speed down to around 300 or 400 rpm on 1 cylinder firing. If you can't do that, then you're not doing it right,or you have air leaks etc. You have to adjust both screws to achieve this. As you adjust the pilot screw, keep lowering the idle speed screw to get the rpm down. Adjust the mixture screw for the best, highest idle, that you can get. ( with the single cylinder at only 300 to 400 rpm). It can be hard to detect, but go in and out on the mixture screw, sensing the engine rpm falling off in both directions.

The important thing to realize , is that the throttle butterfly must be almost completely shut, in order that the pilot screw can be adjusted. This is because the butterfly must be covering up the 3 by-pass holes in the carb throat. If the butterfly is open to much, the mixture coming through the 3 by-pass holes over-rides the pilot screw, and you are unable to adjust it.
 

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Birddog, to answer your question about the ATU, it's something you don't have. The ignition on your bike controls spark advance electronically. The ATU is the automatic timing unit that controls spark advance mechanically on models with breaker point ignitions (listed as "governor" in the parts books).
 
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