Kathos Bike Build

[Kathos]

Greetings, I figured Id take this time to introduce myself / show you guys my bike. Some of you my have seen me poking around, but I dont post often. I've never had a build thread before but I figure Ill try this time around.
Here is my bike when I bought it at in 2013. Mostly stock appearance, with engine mods.

Over the winter. I went through the wiring of the bike. Made a custom seat to mount all the electronics to. And some other small things. I like the Cafe look for the Yamaha so that's the route I'm gonna stick with.

I noticed while riding my bike over the summer, that my bike made more clacking and tapping than I was comfortable with. The valve adjustment gap wouldnt stay constant. The valve tips were deteriorating as seen here. So I decided it was time get into the engine. My plan was to go in, replaces the valves, gaskets, seals, cam chain, cam guide, and install some elephant foot adjustment screws.

This is my first time digging into the xs650 engine. The previous owner went through it but I dont know how well. I learn a lot more doing it myself. The positive thing about the engine is it has 155 compression on both cylinders and it pulls hard.
Anyways, it didnt take long for me to notice some additional things I didnt like.
Notice the right side of the cam shaft looks much dryer than the left. Also notice the shape of the lobes.

And now the rockers

So this engine is already a little worse off than I was hoping for. The rockers are toast. Does you guys agree that it seems the right side isnt getting oil? The engines been sitting for less than 1 month. Do I have any options for the cam shaft? I notice that Mikes has a performance cam sold with performance valve spring kit for $400, but I already have the $100 performance valve springs so Id rather not buy them again. Anywhere I can get a replacement that wont break the bank?
I want to do my engine correctly the first time. Id love to hear tips and comments from everyone. So many people on here with crazy amounts of knowledge. Thanks for checking it out. Happy Holidays!

 

[CDNTX650]

Holy, thats real bad oil starvation. Like, time to take apart to cases and clean all oil passages. Looks like the p.o. likessilicone.

 

[CDNTX650]

Actually, i would check oil pump, oil delivery fitting and tube to head...that whole top end i junk. Id check the rods too...everything. mikes cam is junk, buy a good used one. Elephants feet from cb performance is a great mod.

 

[wannabridin]

I have a set of 4 elephant feet for sale if you need em!!

 

[Kathos]

Actually, i would check oil pump, oil delivery fitting and tube to head...that whole top end i junk. Id check the rods too...everything. mikes cam is junk, buy a good used one. Elephants feet from cb performance is a great mod.

That's what I was thinking. The weird thing is, when I was diagnosing my issue, I checked to see if the top end was gettin oil. So I removed the tappet covers while the engine was running and I could see lil drops of oil flyin out. Also when I remove the covers, there is always a small pool of oil that accumulated on the tappet lip. I guess I'm
Just not getting enough?
I'm going to tear into more after the family departs. Is there a specific way to test the oil pump while I'm taking apart the engine?
Not looking forward to the many more damaged parts I may find.

 

[CDNTX650]

Pull the little round side cover off for the oil filter. Kick a bunch of times without the ignition on and see if oil comes out Or unhook your ignition and crank with e start. Either way, oil should pump out the side filter hole pretty good. Keep in mind these are low psi, so it wont squirt far...but good flow is what you want.

You can inspect the rotors after you remove the pump cover for the right clearance, and make sure they arent cracked. Or broken .

Oil should have sprayed out of the tappet covers when running...enough to make a good mess and not keep that cover off for long. Sounds like the feed tube to the top is plugged.

 

[jay760]

Last time I saw a head as bad as that somebody had removed the oil pump altogether,

 

[Kathos]

I got back in the garage today to continue the tear down. It seems to be pretty simple with plenty of surprises.
The good news is that the rods look like they stayed well oiled. Mixture looks like its running rich with a bit of carbon buildup.

The front cam guide actually doesnt look too bad. Its not detached like I was expecting. Possibly worn down a little too much?

Rear cam chain guide looks terrible.

No bits of metal in the side filter housing

And than I found more bad.....Im sure someone knows what these are from.

Hopefully things will start running smoothly. Im glad I took it apart to find these problems now before it got worse.

 

[CDNTX650]

Thats oil pump....and cover with hole. No wonder the top burnt up.

 

[CDNTX650]

Id be checking crank bearings too. Whats the back of that cover look like...thats like a catastrophic pump failure. You shouldnt see daylight through the back of the oil filter hole.

 

[jay760]

So long as no bits of metal got in the crank bearings they should be ok, they rely on splash in the main, the gearbox relies on oil running through it.

 

[Kathos]

I havent had much time to work on it. My furnace decided it didnt want to make it into the new year.. I started trying to get into the oil pump but Im having a difficult time getting the large gear off. The small worm gear provided some difficulties but it came off. The larger one is free to spin but doesnt want to come all the way off. I think the shaft must be slightly bent. Heres a picture I was able to take.

Besides the obvious damage.. Are you guys able to tell me if these are actually cracks in the oil passages or are these just from the cast? At first I thought they were all cracks but none of these are visible from the outside.
Im betting its part of the cast but if they are cracks than that could reduce my oil pressure even if its internally.

On a positive note. I went over to a buddies house of mine. He is selling a complete engine. He has never used it so hes going to take the head off and check the internals. I plan on using my engine just replacing parts as needed. At least Id like to use my jugs and pistons.
Cant wait to see what other treasures await.

 

[CDNTX650]

In your first pic. See how behind the big gear you can see half a screw and see inside the pup housing.....the housing is broken and from what I saw before the outer pump rotor is broken. The Crack at 12 o'clock in pic 2 is broken pump housing. Those pump shafts usually bend when idiot Previous owners force the cover on and the pump gear isn't quite meshed with the crank gear. The rest is casting flaws from the looks.

 

[Kathos]

CDNTX. You hit the nail on the head and drove it home. The entire outer rotor exploded and part of the housing came off.
All thats left to find of it is one more section of the outer router and 1 screw
I really wanted to get that gear off just so I could see inside the pump and take a picture.
I may just end up cutting the shaft off at the gear. The only thing that I would reuse is possibly the worm and side cover.

 

[CDNTX650]

Just make sure when you take that rotor off the face of the cover where the rotors spin isn't to scratched up. Light scratches are okay. Gouges not. 2 of my side covers are mint while two I have have deep scratching of the pump surface. Probably from the dreaded sump screen tear and shit being pulled through the pump.

 

[CDNTX650]

And somebody could have bought Mikes xs replacement rotors....mine are at the dump. They bind bad.

 

[Kathos]

Yeah, I replaced my sump filter at the beginning of the season. The old one had the typical tear in it. I need to pull the sump plate off and take a gander at what may or may not be caught in there.
The PO has a long list of parts he ordered and all the paperwork. He was definitely a mikesxs junky.. Ill have to look over the orders and see if he ever got into the pump. Most of the topics I've read on the subject complain that the inner rotor binds on the outer causing a clearance issue. Some resolve it by smoothing. Currently, I plan on finding a used OEM one if I can find it in good condition.

 

[CDNTX650]

Mine just had some scratches. So I used some 1k grit wet and smoothed it on a piece of glass. Then did the pump cover to bring the rotor clearance to a tight .002

 

[Kathos]

I'm trying to weigh my options after speaking to a member of the horrors that await when splitting a case. I'm pretty positive I have access to an entire engine that I could buy in unknown internal condition. Being that I never had any issues with my trans, is it worth splitting the case anyways or should I continue by replacing the head internals. I'm not really interested in half assing it but I don't want to be left with an "over my head"rebuild. What would you do?

 

[CDNTX650]

Splitting the cases is very simple. The worst is behind the clutch basket for the washer order etc. But lots of pictures on your end and good instruction on this end. The e start might also be a bit tough as i pulled it all out on this new engine I did so I don't know how hard reassembly is.. But again lots of pics helps. Transmission gears all come out as a set. Simple. Shift forks stay with case half and will probably not need to be touched. Once you do one you see how simple these machines are. You will need a clutch basket holder to undo the large nut behind the plates. If your motor is newer than half way 77 you could also install 5th gear o d while in there.