I’ve encountered an 82 model xs650 that was apparently over-revved or at least run very hard. Now, it doesn’t run well and has a rattle. For starters, I drained the oil and pulled the oil filter. I found some metal bits in the oil, in size somewhere between a tomato seed and an apple seed. Filter had lots of fine silvery metal particles. Cam chain adjustment is good as are all valve clearances. I know I have to take engine apart, but any ideas where I might look first? Thanks.
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Looking for ideas regarding possible over-revved XS
- Thread starter Wirelic
- Start date
I would try a magnet on the particles and
Run it listening with a steel rod or long screwdriver between points on the engine and the ear.
Getting a better idea where the sound comes from.
Smoke ?
Compression test ?
Run it listening with a steel rod or long screwdriver between points on the engine and the ear.
Getting a better idea where the sound comes from.
Smoke ?
Compression test ?
The metal in the oil is possibly from the front chain guide, I understand from posts on this site that when these break down it also can produce a noise. I would check that first.
The crank wheels are a pressed together at assembly and can walk. You could try testing the crank for end run out with it in situ. I have never done this with the crank installed so dont know if it will give you valid information.
Others may have better suggestions.
The crank wheels are a pressed together at assembly and can walk. You could try testing the crank for end run out with it in situ. I have never done this with the crank installed so dont know if it will give you valid information.
Others may have better suggestions.
Yes you can watch both ends of the crank, the left is easy, just remove the alternator cover. Clutch cover has to come off the right to see if it's wiggling.
For a first check, visual is probably good enough, electric start, plugs out is a nice way to check.
Compression test done?
Several other things can looked at inside that RH cover.
For a first check, visual is probably good enough, electric start, plugs out is a nice way to check.
Compression test done?
Several other things can looked at inside that RH cover.
Of course, that can describe a wide range of potential problems - some that are caused by "ran hard", some by lack of lubrication or excessive heat.
Generally, there are two areas of "rattle" noises; those caused by issues with crank, rods and piston/cylinder that occur at a frequency equal to engine rpm and those caused by cam, rockers and valve train that occur at half that frequency.
Excess heat tends to damage rods or pistons first and lack of lubrication tends to damage cam, rocker shafts or valve train first
Just remembered another thing I have seen twice on XS's that have been high in the revs is tappet adjuster nuts coming off. Very easy to check.
Honestly (I've abused 'em) It's pretty hard to damage a stock motor over revving it. What makes you think it's been over revved?
Oil starvation does occasionally happen. A look in a valve cover at the cam faces will prolly show if that has been the case.
Check tach drive is spinning (tach drive also spins the oil pump) and open, check oil pump.
Couple pics of the bike? You near Appleton?
Oil starvation does occasionally happen. A look in a valve cover at the cam faces will prolly show if that has been the case.
Check tach drive is spinning (tach drive also spins the oil pump) and open, check oil pump.
Couple pics of the bike? You near Appleton?
I once F*cked up not inspecting the oil level .There was a line at the glass from an earlier
level.
I should have taken out the stick.
One Piston looking like that don't know what you call it in English.
Never repaired the bottom end .And not much at the top end
Cam Bearing s but don't think anything else.
There was a knocking sound of the excessive piston play
One
level.
I should have taken out the stick.
One Piston looking like that don't know what you call it in English.
Never repaired the bottom end .And not much at the top end
Cam Bearing s but don't think anything else.
There was a knocking sound of the excessive piston play
One
Gentlemen, all very good and valuable comments. The person I got the bike from told me his kid had taken it out on a long afternoon ride and when he brought it back, the kid said he couldn’t get it to go very fast and it didn’t run well.
I’ve personally ridden it about 15 miles, seemed to run pretty good, actually, but a bit “rattlely” or noisier that it should be. When I dumped the oil, I found the metal bits. And found the metal flakes in the oil filter. I did a compression test and that turned out well. (I did record the values, but don’t have those numbers at hand right now). I checked the cam chain tension adjustment and it was right on. Then, check valve clearances, a couple were a bit tight, I set them all according to the manual. But what I could see regarding tappers, etc, looked ok.
But, I’m thinking, due to metal pieces and particles I’ll have to tear the engine down, find what broke and clean everything out. Below are pics of the metal bits found on magnetic drain plug, and oil filter.
Thanks for your ideas.
I’ve personally ridden it about 15 miles, seemed to run pretty good, actually, but a bit “rattlely” or noisier that it should be. When I dumped the oil, I found the metal bits. And found the metal flakes in the oil filter. I did a compression test and that turned out well. (I did record the values, but don’t have those numbers at hand right now). I checked the cam chain tension adjustment and it was right on. Then, check valve clearances, a couple were a bit tight, I set them all according to the manual. But what I could see regarding tappers, etc, looked ok.
But, I’m thinking, due to metal pieces and particles I’ll have to tear the engine down, find what broke and clean everything out. Below are pics of the metal bits found on magnetic drain plug, and oil filter.
Thanks for your ideas.
Attachments
Gary, I’m in Algoma, about 65 miles from Appleton.
What did you find in the sump?
Check the oil pump. That stuff had to go through it.
Check the oil pump. That stuff had to go through it.
Ok. I’ll give that a look. Thanks.
What you found in the side filter is pretty typical, especially on a bike that hasn't had frequent oil filter cleanings (most of these, lol). But yes, most all of these need the topend gone through. As mentioned, the front cam chain guides are routinely failing now, mostly due to their age. They have a rubber strip bonded to an aluminum base and the rubber is coming loose now, sometimes falling right off .....
Certainly possibly. But I’m concerned about the relatively large metal chunks attached to the magnetic drain plug. Definitely not aluminum. But, thank you!
Yes there is particles ..and one or so a bit larger
You have compression fine
It runs fairly OK fine
Depending on how noisy it is I probably would wait a while.
Until more certain what it is.
The 5t Check # 14 and the oil pump
It can be difficult to find the source when in parts. Se below on the carburetor.
Is the bottom filter inspected ?
It depends of course on time cost skills tools garage .What the plan is
Put it like this I have seen many bikes in boxes that did not need to be in that position.
If the compression is good i would expect the bike to have Ouummpphhh since it can have it with poor compression even
And the wrong mixture can make a bike sound as if it is game over.
What is on the odometer ?
You have compression fine
It runs fairly OK fine
Depending on how noisy it is I probably would wait a while.
Until more certain what it is.
The 5t Check # 14 and the oil pump
It can be difficult to find the source when in parts. Se below on the carburetor.
Is the bottom filter inspected ?
It depends of course on time cost skills tools garage .What the plan is
Put it like this I have seen many bikes in boxes that did not need to be in that position.
If the compression is good i would expect the bike to have Ouummpphhh since it can have it with poor compression even
And the wrong mixture can make a bike sound as if it is game over.
What is on the odometer ?
I actually own a motorcycle repair shop, but turned to you XS experts for suggestions. I’m not that familiar with this model. So, I can rebuild the engine if needed, but looking for suggestions that might point me in the right direction. I have the shop, tools, skill, time is limited do to customer demands (others) Carb mixture is fine, odometer is a bit over 7000 miles.
hovel
ol' stupid
A mechanics stethoscope is not expensive and I think you'll like it a lot better than a steel rod. You'll end up using it on a lot of things.
Yes, I agree. Truthfully, Ive never been very good using a steel rod
video of it running?
y'no the XS650 motor isn't exactly quiet even when it's in fine fettle..................
y'no the XS650 motor isn't exactly quiet even when it's in fine fettle..................
