Minton Mod or not

[BBQRider]

I am in the middle of lowering and tinkering with the forks on my 83. When I first got the bike I put a set of Progressive springs in with new oil (10w). Didn't seem to help a whole lot. I still get some serious brake dive to the point of bottoming out sometimes. To be honest it is possible I didn't have enough fluid in them (or made some other rookie mistake)? So I decided to do a total makeover this winter with them. I have them apart (seals out and all). I will be doing new seals, polishing the lowers and possibly going with 15w oil. I bought the HHB 2" lowering kit that I reduced down to 1.5". I just didn't want quite that much drop. I figure if I do end up wanting more I can raise the forks in the triple. So here's the big question: I wrote Hugh (HHB) to ask a couple of questions and he advised not doing the "Minton Mod". He said it has turned out to be less desirable as time has gone on. This kind of surprised me because there is so much talk out there of doing the modification. So the question is-has anyone out there had a bad experience with the MM?? I have seen where some have drilled holes too big or too many and rendered them useless. However, if done proper have they been reliable long term? What I have seen seems to be a positive nod for the price with the only real argument going towards emulators and straight rate springs for the most part. As it is now, I am seriously still tempted with the forks all apart and the dampers staring me in the face and the fact that it is a no cost upgrade? I know Hugh is the guru and definitely value his opinion but please feel free to weigh in, all you other XS gurus.

 

[retiredgentleman]

I'll start out by saying that I am not a fork expert. All I know is based on my personal experience with my bike over the last 10 years. When I first bought my bike, the forks had lots of brake dive.................much too much for me. I replaced the old dirty fork oil with new clean 10W fork oil, but the fork brake dive was still the same. I had some diesel 15W40 oil on hand, so I put that in as a trial .
Well the same 15W40 oil is still being used in my forks today. It made my forks work the way I like forks to work. I don't like soft mushy forks, I like firm forks, and that's what I have. I used 203 cc or 7 oz of oil per fork.

I have a Brembo 4 piston caliper on my front wheel, which is quite powerful, yet I have never bottomed out my forks, and I do occasionally have to really hammer the brakes on.

Most guys on the site are going to tell you to use 10W fork oil, so I guess I'm some sort of renegade contrarian. Just giving my opinion so you'll have to choose what you think is best.

By the way, my fork springs are the progressive type (OEM stock I believe), and I have the 3 way adjusters set for the most firm position.

 

[jetmechmarty]

I'm not doing it either. If your forks dive too aggressively, making the holes in the damper rod bigger may make it worse. 15W oil should slow your high speed damping, doing opposite what the Minton Mod would do. What do you wish to accomplish? Was the ride OK and the brake dive your only real complaint? I can help with that. Collapse the fork and remove the spring. Fill to 130 mm from the top and reassemble. Do the same on the other fork. Oil level controls bottoming and stiffness in the last 30% of fork travel. You may wish to return to 10W oil and you may add all the way to 110 mm from the top with the fork compressed.

Emulators are tuneable. You will have to upgrade to straight rate springs and wreck the damper rods. You'll have lots of variables to deal with. If you buy the from Mike's or similar outlet, you'll be all on your own trying to figure it out and I don't think you want to go there. Race-Tech or Traxxion Dynamics can fix you up, but they don't work for free.

I'm with Hugh. Don't do the Minton Mod. Put clean 10W oil back in and raise the level.

 

[5twins]

You're going to take handling tips from a guy who builds hardtail bobbers for a living????? lol,lol,lol. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the Minton Mods didn't seem to do much to a set of forks you already altered by knocking 2" of travel out of.

On a normal standard length set of forks, I think the Minton Mods really help. Sure, emulators and custom straight weight springs are probably better, but can cost near $200. The Minton Mods are basically free and in no way hinder you from going to emulators in the future if you want to. You just drill the damper rods out even more. Once the Minton Mods are done, they won't deteriorate over time. The fork action won't get worse as miles accumulate. I think what Hugh meant was that support for doing them has dropped off since emulators came out. But I still feel they're the best low cost fork mod you can do, along with using more oil.

The bad diving is a lack of oil thing. The stock spec of just under 6 ounces wasn't enough. These forks work much better with a bit more, about 7 ounces. More oil combined with the Minton Mods will make a difference you can feel. The stock forks have too much damping, especially on the compression stroke. This makes them ride rough over the little bumps. They don't respond to them and instead jolt you through the bars. The Minton Mods greatly improve the initial response. They make the forks work much smoother in daily riding. I can't say for sure that they make much difference at high speeds and pushing hard through corners but they certainly don't detract from that.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Sure, emulators and custom straight weight springs are probably better, but can cost near $200.

Not hardly! If you don't know what you're doing, it goes to $500 real quick, plus a lot of time. Well tuned forks will also require a fork brace on the XS650. While you're at it, having the fork lowers hard anodized is a very good idea at another $200+. It's much easier to just send off the forks and have them right the first time. $500-600 should cover it if you skip the anodizing.
You enjoy nice pavement up there in Asheville, so why not just try the raised oil level and see how you like it?

 

[650Skull]

I thought i had posted this.............

here are some threads on the subject................First thread is an updated conclusion on the Minton Mods by 5Twins................
http://www.xs650.com/threads/thx-5-twins-minton-mod-revisited.45580/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/minton-mod-question-forks.25200/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/minton-mod-observations.25588/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/stock-hole-size.45068/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/minton-mod-on-front-forks.47957/#post-484419

 

[5twins]

This topic comes up time and time again. I don't know what else to say other than I whole heartedly support the Minton Mods. Sure there's better things, but not for free. They really help. If not good enough, then drop the hundreds of dollars on the fancy new stuff. But, don't dismiss these mods unless you've tried them. Many refuse to even consider it. I'll admit, I wouldn't until I acquired an extra set of damper rods to try them on. My originals were safely tucked away in case I had to switch back. They still are and I will never switch back. I've modded many more sets since then for other people. This is a good virtually free mod that really does something you can feel - as long as you use more oil too, that's important. You won't get the full benefit without the extra oil.

 

[BBQRider]

I thought I might be opening up a little can of worms here. It's kinda like my business, the whole Eastern vs Western North Carolina BBQ ongoing war! Haha. The bottom line is that the overall ride on my bike is pretty comfortable but that brake dive thing both bothers and worries me a bit. So I think I will in a sense take everyone's advice and proceed through this by starting with simply adding more oil. If that doesn't work then I'll move on to the mods. If that doesn't work I guess it will be time to spend some more money (Racetech)! One last question though-are the MInton mods an all our nothing deal or could you start by enlarging just a couple holes at a time? Or do you think that would be a waste of time? I realize it ultimately falls on me but has anyone heard of it being done that way?? Thanks for the great advice.

 

[jetmechmarty]

If you open anything on the damper rods, they flow more oil. How much it takes to feel it is not a question I am qualified to answer.

 

[YAM277]

http://www.xs650.com/threads/minton-mod-on-front-forks.47957/#post-488483 We just had this conversation a few weeks ago, hope this might help your interest or decision.

 

[5twins]

More oil will help with the brake dive but will also probably amplify the effect of the over-damped rods (holes too small). I don't know how big the holes need to be for emulator use but I guess it's so big that the damper rod no longer dampens. The emulator does this job then. I imagine the Minton Mod hole sizes fall somewhere in between stock and the large sizes required to render the rods useless. Sure, I guess you could experiment but I think it would probably be lots of work for nothing. This isn't rocket science. The approximately 1/16" increase in size to the 4 bottom holes seems to work well. Less, or only doing some of them would probably not have much effect. Too much more and you get nearer and nearer to rendering them useless. But by all means, go ahead. Document your results and let us know. I'm satisfied with the hole sizes and oil amount I use and don't feel the need to experiment further. But, you never know what the future may bring.

 

[azman857]

I did the MM when the SG's forks needed new seals. I read the original artical in a reprint online. I read 5twin's( I think it was his) thread on his way of doing it and copied it with the addition of 7-8 oz of fork oil. I used 15wt. and when I do a flush I'm going to use 10wt. I am pleased with the ride. I too have the progressive wound springs and the multi setting fork tops. at no preload. Way less dive on braking.

 

[BBQRider]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm going to get back to work on them over the weekend. I am leaning towards doing the mod completely. Seems like it really can't hurt and hopefully I'll find the improvement I'm looking for. Worse case, either move on to emulators or find replacement dampers on eBay.... I'll keep you posted. Once this is complete I'll be replacing the master cylinder, ss line and rotor that I just got for this front end overhaul. Im sure I'll have more questions regarding that!