Missing Points/Advance Unit?

[bpastorb]

Hey guys, been a little while since i've posted on here.

I have a 1977 yamaha xs650, confirmed with the vin.
I took off the advance/points covers to find there were no units in there (made me start thinking I might have purchased an 80's model)? Once the covers were off I was able to remove one housing just by taking out the three screws, the other side seems to get stuck/fault on something, can only wiggle about 6-7mm. There is a plate thats attached to the cam that looks like it could be getting in the way (See picture).

Does this plate need to be removed before I can take off the housing/seal from this side as well?

The bike was purchased as a non-runner barn find and hadn't been touched in 20 years but it was 'complete'. I assume back then someone might have pulled the units (for whatever reason), although there isn't much evidence of tampering on the bike. It is covered in a nice layer of grime and grease so it could go unnoticed though.

The rest of the charging and ignition system seems to be included (rec, condenser, etc), so Im kind of unsure of which parts need ordering.. Do I just need to order an auto advance unit, and contact point set, or is there more to it than that? I've been having a hard time finding a good diagram to reference to determine what parts are missing or not.

Thanks for any help!

 

[bpastorb]

Thanks for the reply solo2racr.
You are correct, the two square pieces are magnetic.
Please excuse my ignorance, but what would this tell you?
Does this plate need to come off (I'm trying to strip the whole head down at the moment) to get the housing off?
Since the rest of it is missing would this mean the part I need to order is the 'basic pamco electronic ignition' (#14-0900)?
Does anything need to be ordered for the housing on the other side of the engine/cam as well?
Thanks again

 

[I am Carbon]

I've not seen that plate before there should be a threaded end on the cam that sticks out farther than that plate seems to be if it is the right side.
Take a pic of left side please.

 

[bpastorb]

Hey Carbon, thanks for the reply. Here's the other side, first pic is just showing the housing that I removed, second pic (housing removed) shows exactly what you describe, threaded end of cam sticking out.

 

[I am Carbon]

I'm not familiar with that system.
But if you remove the nut and washers ya should be able to push the advance rod through
the cam and out the other side.

 

[bpastorb]

Oh ya that makes sense. I'll give that a shot, the plate should pop out with the rod as well. Ill try to figure out what system its from and ill post my results

 

[I am Carbon]

Yea....looks like someone previously has done a bit of hacking around here. Given that the left side Hall effect trigger (unknown origin) is all that's left. I would scrap it out and start all over. The missing pieces are the advance (either electronic or mechanical) and the pick-up for the existing trigger on the end of the cam (the magnets on the disc in the first pic).

Easiest would be a Pamco w/ the E-Advancer.

Yes I would agree with that.

 

[bpastorb]

solo2racr, thanks so much for the quick replies! Thats about what I figured would have to be done as well, no matter which system is used to be from what I can see so far the head is going to need lots of work and parts, so I guess I'll deal with that issue once I get there! Pamco does look like the way to go albeit a little bit pricey

 

[angus67]

You can still tear down your motor if you can't get the advance rod out. If you just can't get it out after the tear down, you can pick up usable cams All day on eBay. I've got two rolling around somewhere.

 

[bpastorb]

Ya I was able to remove the rod quite easily and the magnetic plate popped out the other side, and the engine tear down continues!
After a bit of research and finding the 'micro-power ignition box, hidden amongst the rats nest of a wiring loom, I was able to confirm that this is what's left from a Boyer Bransden Ignition. Have any of you guys ever come across one of these or heard anything good/bad about them? I'll research on the forum of course but the more opinions the better.
It appears all I'm missing is the Ignition Trigger Stator Plate Assy. which is suppose to mount into the two vacant screw holes, but who knows if the igniter box is still good..

 

[bpastorb]

Also, I have pulled all of the head cover bolts out (12 in total), but the cover itself won't budge. I have tried hitting the pieces that purposefully overhang with a hammer and piece of wood. It seems to have help lift one side a little (to where you can see a bit of light through the seam), but the other side won't budge. I gave it some more wacks (being careful not to damage anything of course) and then tried to pull on the entire cover again but it still feels glued down. I sprayed some penetrating fluid on the trouble side into the seam where the head and cover meet and am going to try waiting a bit and trying again. Does anyone have any tips to get this thing off without damaging anything?

 

[5twins]

The top cover should come loose without too much fuss. Try a block of wood in the valve cover openings, pounding up.

 

[bpastorb]

Ya thats exactly what Ive been attempting. It seems to have worked on one side of the engine but not the other, still won't even budge when I pull on it from above, not even a wiggle. The very top of the motor was covered in dirt/grime though so this could possibly be why its so tough.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - I was able to confirm that this is what's left from a Boyer Bransden Ignition. Have any of you guys ever come across one of these or heard anything good/bad about them? - - -

Hi bpastorb,
I fitted a Boyer-Bransden system to my BSA single a while back.
OK, almost anything works better than the BSA's stock Lucas ignition But the B-B was a VAST improvement, turned the kick-til-you-puke starting procedure into a first-kick delight. And that's with the B-B firing a 35 year old stock XS650 coil from my junk box.
One question though:-
The photos show the B-B trigger magnet plate bolted to the end of the advancer rod.
The rod must have been fixed in place somehow?

 

[bpastorb]

The magnetic plate has the advancer rod threaded into it, on the opposite end of the rod was a washer and bolt to fix it in place. After reading lots of positive review of the BB I will likely stay with this system and just repair whats missing or broken.

 

[I am Carbon]

If you haven't got the rocker box off what I do is keep the valves adjusted and rotate the engine the valve springs should have enough power in them to push it up

 

[bpastorb]

Thanks Carbon! Exactly the sort of trick I was looking for
(Please excuse my terrible terminology/incorrect part naming!)

UPDATE: Worked like a charm! Cheers man!