no spark pamco w/ green dual coil

[MB Canada]

I have been trying to dial in my new motor. I had been trying to firstly get my timing retarded enough to actually fall into the "F" section (best it seems to go was 1/4 inch or so before the "F" marking at idle. After my ankle healed from the wicked kick backs i had read a few more very helpful threads and realized i may not have had the cam chain tight enough? I was wondering if i had missed something during the build as i had the cases split, but i checked the timing marks more than once. I have a Pamco ignition with the green dual wire coil. Turns out the cam chain was too loose BUT after checking the timing (Pamco still totally retarded but just hitting "F" mark) when i disconnected the timing light i VERY STUPIDLY missed putting the plug cap back on the spark plug. I kicked it over and the motor fired when i looked down (maybe 10-15 seconds) i put the cap back on the plug while running. The cylinder fired right up.....10 min later no spark!! Fuses are fine and i have good power to coil (red w/wht strip wire) nothing after that. I also installed new ATU springs with mod to spring snaps back like the video posted. I have been really struggling with the timing way too advanced, after the cam chain was tightened (wiggly thingy stopped then backed of until movement again while running hot) the timing got barley within spec (3500 rpm was on the mark) but why is the Pamco all the way to it's end?? Through this whole process, i thought maybe the new cam chain was my issue... still my motor breaks up between 4 and 5000 rpm. Struggling wondering if it's a timing issue or jetting as the rpm seems to be when the two jets transfer? Well i have VM 34 's from MMM and he's the man. I went size larger main.. just got richer as well tried a 30 slow speed jet (MMM set up was 27.5) but way too rich. I think MMM had it jetted fine the first time!

Sorry for my very winded tale... the big question is when i ran the bike without a plug wire connected... ya think i blew coil as well as the pamco? I have another coil here from a Harley setup so i can try that.... i was seeking some wisdom on my matter as i know it was own fault not having the plug wire connected. I had also tried spinning the shaft through the ATU 180 and have timing marks lined up with the ATU weights rotor.

Why would my timing be so oddly cranked full retarded only to barley hit the beginning of an acceptable setting?

Frustrated with a sore ankle and now wondering how much of my ignition did i just fry?

 

[havok]

I hate saying this and I hope I'm wrong...
But I think you fried yer coil!

I have a dual green coil from Mikesxs.
Directions say never to run coil with one wire!
One being positive and one negative it would fry the coil...


Sounds to me that's exactly what happened.


But I'm no expert.

 

[pamcopete]

MB Canada,

Think so. Especially with the "Green Monster" 17-6810 coil. It is absolutely unforgiving.

It probably took out the PAMCO with it as well. Replace it with either the 17-6822 or the 17-6903 "Ultimate" coil. I have run tests with those coils and they will survive running on just one wire, but that is still not recommended. This is not a problem just with the PAMCO. Most service manuals will caution you to not run with just one wire connected.

Here is a video of the 17-6903 coil running on just one plug:

This test is using a PAMCO CB750 ignition that has the same electronics as the XS650 system. The 17-6903 coil survives because it uses the capacitance of the coil windings to find a path to either the frame of the coil or the primary, that is why the one spark plug that is still connected has such a weak spark. Even though this coil will not self destruct with one wire disconnected, it is still not something that you should do. That's called "pushing your luck"!

If the PAMCO is fried, PM me and I'll see if there is any warranty left, or perhaps sell you the plate only with the PC board for less than a complete system. If the PAMCO is still working, then loosen the nuts on both the PAMCO rotor and the advance rod on the right side and hold the PAMCO rotor firmly in the clockwise position as you tighten the two nuts to get the maximum retard available.

 

[Tomterrific]

Pete,

Do you use the Bosch BIP-373 power transistor to drive the coil? I told a friend about this transistor and he wanted to get a one to repair his Pamco. I have a couple of VB-921 I thought about using in my Triumph (positive ground) but I never messed with them.

Do some coils have a dedicated spark gap to ground so if the spark plug is open the coil is saved?

Tom

 

[pamcopete]

TomTerrific,

I use an industry standard IGBT transistor that is made just for ignition systems. it has some of the necessary circuitry built in hence my very low parts count.

I don't know of any coils with that feature. I thought of having a device made that connects to both plug wires with a gap between them, but knowing that the 17-6903 coil can survive with one wire disconnected, I'm not as concerned as I was before MikesXS started to include the 17-6903 coil in the kits.

If your friend wants to he can return his PAMCO to me and for a flat $45 I will repair or replace it and return it with a 2 year warranty. For that he will get a complete new PC board with the latest upgrades. Or, if he feels up to it, I can send him a tested PC board for the same price and he will save the shipping to me. He will have to install the PC board on his plate but he will get the same 2 year warranty.

 

[MB Canada]

Thank you havok and pamcopete, i was wondering if maybe the pamco unit may have been saved? I have a acell dual output coil here (i'll check the spec's on it first 3 ohm i think?) that i used on a shovel head that is near new. I use it to check if the pamco still works.... otherwise pamcopete will get another order. I feel i learned the pamco lesson running with one wire off... and use the kill switch to make sure no power to coil when not running.

Pamcopete do i need a industry standard IGBT transistor? Does this go in front of coil to protect it from issues like i just made that fried mine? Will i find this info on your site? I'll go check and if you sell direct i'll purchase there as well.... thank you.

I just checked my paperwork... i did buy the 17-6810 coil with the 14-0900 basic pamco ignition. I maybe should have done a tad moor research first. I'll get the 17-6903 coil if the acell does not work and

 

[MB Canada]

opps... thank you too Tomterrific for great input!

 

[MB Canada]

I have a Accel supercoil 140406 can anyone tell me if this would work in my xs650? I think the access is 4.7 ohm is that too much?