Not shifting while idling

[matty]

Hi all,

My 1980 has a recurring issue of becoming ‘stuck’ in gear while I’m in idle (not able to go to neutral).

It generally shifts fine when I’m moving but have also felt some new friction/resistance between lower gears. If I give it some gas with the clutch in, it then usually allows me to switch gears again.

A recent issue that’s been pretty consistently coming up 10ish minutes into my ride.

Apologies if this has been posted before, I did a general search but couldn’t find anything.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

 

[Jim]

I'd start by adjusting the clutch... a full adjustment. Making sure the cable is well lubed would help too.

 

[bosco659]

I agree with Jim. Sounds like your clutch is dragging

 

[5twins]

But it is a pretty common thing with these bikes for it to be difficult to find neutral once the bike is hot and you've come to a stop. Best you tap it into neutral while you're still rolling.

 

[bosco659]

But it is a pretty common thing with these bikes for it to be difficult to find neutral once the bike is hot and you've come to a stop. Best you tap it into neutral while you're still rolling.

Agreed. I’ve done lots to try to improve this but am still plagued with the elusive neutral and laboured downshifting at low speeds, when the engine is hot. I’ve installed the best worm gear, one piece clutch pushrod, new clutch cable, Magura clutch lever and perhaps not related but have done an 8 plate clutch conversion. It appears I’m getting good travel and plate separation but the clutch seems to drag once it gets hot. I hadn’t planned on working on the bike this winter but I may focus on getting the clutch working better. I’ll take and post how much travel I’m getting with the clutch rod. Only thing I can think of is the clutch plates may be getting hung up on grooves in the basket assembly but I’m pretty sure there was little to no wear there.

 

[Kevin Werner]

Agreed. I’ve done lots to try to improve this but am still plagued with the elusive neutral and laboured downshifting at low speeds, when the engine is hot. I’ve installed the best worm gear, one piece clutch pushrod, new clutch cable, Magura clutch lever and perhaps not related but have done an 8 plate clutch conversion. It appears I’m getting good travel and plate separation but the clutch seems to drag once it gets hot. I hadn’t planned on working on the bike this winter but I may focus on getting the clutch working better. I’ll take and post how much travel I’m getting with the clutch rod. Only thing I can think of is the clutch plates may be getting hung up on grooves in the basket assembly but I’m pretty sure there was little to no wear there.

Try doing your clutch adjustments, cable free play and actuator ramp free play, when the bike is fully warmed up. Still, finding neutral will be elusive at a stop. Like @5twins suggested, we select neutral as we come to a stop. This is, after all, a design from the late fifties where the gearbox gets the multiplied torque. Newer designs multiply the torque with a small countershaft and large rear wheel sprocket, this design multiplies the torque with the crank to clutch gearset so we have big clunky gearswith a lot of inertia.

 

[bosco659]

Try doing your clutch adjustments, cable free play and actuator ramp free play, when the bike is fully warmed up. Still, finding neutral will be elusive at a stop. Like @5twins suggested, we select neutral as we come to a stop. This is, after all, a design from the late fifties where the gearbox gets the multiplied torque. Newer designs multiply the torque with a small countershaft and large rear wheel sprocket, this design multiplies the torque with the crank to clutch gearset so we have big clunky gearswith a lot of inertia.

Thanks. Yes I have adjusted the clutch when hot and make adjustments at the lever perch as the bike gets hotter. Puzzling this to me is if I have adequate plate separation, why am I experiencing this? Other owners report no such issues. One thing that could be affecting me in my set up is the fact I have rear sets and the gearshift operates through linkages. Perhaps this is compounding the problem. Maybe through the winter I’ll also source stock footpegs and a shifter and see if this improves the condition. The attachment is an old picture so don’t pat any attention to some unidentified bits.

Oh and as a side note I always look for something that’s wrong with any of my vehicles. It’s a curse and it’s just me. Lol.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Oh and as a side note I always look for something that’s wrong with any of my vehicles. It’s a curse and it’s just me. Lol.

Has your wife done this to you?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1183006735172288513

My husband pissed me off so when he wasn't looking I poured water on the floor in front of the dishwasher. He's been fixing it for the past 2 hours.

 

[arcticXS]

Won't oil brand/type/ weight (viscosity) have some influence on shifting in general, and finding neutral? Also, adjustment of the shifting mechanism, and leverage ratio of any rearset/ forward peg shifter linkages, as well as lubrication of these will have some influence. Also, wear or other issues with the detent "star" or plunger can be a partial cause.
Kevin Cameron sort of touches on this subject in this article:
https://www.cycleworld.com/blogs/ask-kevin/machined-grooves-role-motorcycling-explained/

Finally, even a worn shifter shaft bore in the LH engine cover will have some impact on shifting action.

 

[matty]

But it is a pretty common thing with these bikes for it to be difficult to find neutral once the bike is hot and you've come to a stop. Best you tap it into neutral while you're still rolling.

Didn’t know it was this common, good to know. I’ve already been starting the habit of taping into neutral earlier.

Thank you all though for the suggestions and info.

 

[arcticXS]

But it is a pretty common thing with these bikes for it to be difficult to find neutral once the bike is hot and you've come to a stop. Best you tap it into neutral while you're still rolling.

Yes, and other bikes have this issue as well. My 95 Ducati M600 needs to be shifted into neutral while rolling. But it quickly became second nature to do that.

 

[gggGary]

Hot shifting is an issue with many, most multi plate wet clutch bikes. Cable routing, avoiding bends, eliminating any sharp bends, a big part of any "solution"

 

[Raymond]

Finding neutral has been difficult on many bikes in the past and even in more recent times. People riding old British iron back in the day were told it was good practice to select N before coming to a halt. Miss November behaves pretty well in that respect but only after rebuilding the clutch - had been assembled wrongly - and several attempts to make better clutch adjustment. Thanks @5twins and all the others who helped.

With my RE Bullet, again had to adjust the clutch and by all accounts they are quite fussy about the adjustment, also about the oil in the primary drive, also about cable routing and condition of the clutch plates. Plate separation is marginal, that's why correct adjustment and cable routing are important, but I've even followed a tip to file some metal of the pivot end off the clutch lever - gives slight increase in pull distance. Seems good now but still usually select N before completely stopped. Oh, and the other problem you're trying to solve on a bike fitted with an early-design of lathe gearbox is avoiding false neutrals which seem to lurk in there between all four gears.

Sorry, rambled a bit. I would echo the suggestion of adjusting the clutch. I tighten until adjuster just touches the push rod, the back off just a smidge and hold steady while tightening the lock-nut.

 

[bosco659]

*** Edit: This condition has become an annoying “dripping tap” situation for me. I’m very focussed on it now (unfortunately). Current measure (today) my clutch rod travel was about .078”. With my 8 plate set up, if I’m correct, there are 16 spaces between the friction plates / steel plates / clutch basket. That means if there were perfect (theoretical) or equal space between components, the gaps would be about .0049” That to me isn’t that much. Need to find out what’s wrong.

After much messing around I have about .096” of travel in the rod. Need to test ride it now. With the adjustments I made there is no free play in the lever. Hoping this won’t be a problem.

 

[5twins]

Do you have an original or aftermarket one piece pushrod? I ask because they are made of steel and don't expand as much as the cases when hot. We figure this is what causes all the extra freeplay that develops when hot. Someone on the site here was making and selling alloy rods, can't remember who off-hand. They are supposed to help.

Like Raymond, I run my adjustment pretty tight (set cold). That way I don't need to re-adjust once hot. Yes, I get increased freeplay, but not enough to require a re-set on the handlebar adjuster. To get this nice snug setting, I use a technique I call "fanning" the clutch lever. As I'm tightening the worm adjuster screw, I "fan" the clutch lever, pump it in and out, but only through it's freeplay range. I don't pull it all the way in and disengage the clutch. What this does is stack the series of balls and rods between the worm gear and the clutch itself tightly together, forcing any oil out from between the parts. As I'm tightening the worm adjuster screw, I'll often get as much as another 1/4 turn in on it while doing this. Then, and only then, do I back the screw off a little (1/8 of a turn at most) and tighten the lock nut. I finish the adjustment process by taking pretty much all the freeplay out of the hand lever with it's adjuster. Now, this may seem too tight but it's not. As soon as the motor is running and heating up (expanding), more freeplay begins to develop.

 

[bosco659]

I have a one piece aluminum clutch rod. Test ride won’t happen until tomorrow.

 

[bosco659]

Went for a quick spin today. My new found .018” of extra clutch rod travel appears to have improved shifting. I think it will be next season to determine that for sure.