Not starting after a few small maintenance jobs. I’m stumped.

[Mjohnm]

Disclaimer - I am completely new to XS650s and pretty new to working on bikes in depth.

It’s a 1980 Yamaha xs650 special -
Got this from someone that had it running and road it regularly (supposedly). He actually road it to my place. I was able to start it a few times initially with some difficulty. Pretty frequent kickbacks but figured it might be because it’s my first kickstart bike and I’m a pretty small guy. Only sat for about a week. The clutch was nearly impossible to pull in, and as soon as you put it into gear it would just stall. Managed to put it into 1st maybe once or twice while giving it a lot of gas but then even pulling the clutch in still had the bike inching forward slowly.

So everything I did after this -

- Replaced the clutch cable
- Got a new clutch release mechanism from Mikes XS.
- Drained the oil,
- Pulled the clutch plates apart, soaked them in oil for a bit and put everything back in (the plates and the basket didn’t look too worn actually but one seemed pretty stuck)
- new gaskets
- reset the kick because of course it came off while taking off the engine side cover.

Wouldn’t start at all. The lights are on, I can feel the kick engaging but nothing else happens.

After this I
- Charged the battery just in case
- replaced the fouled spark plugs with NGK BPR7ES Standard Sparks (previous ones looked pretty carbon fouled and maybe smelled a bit like petrol)
- drained the carbs in case they got flooded from me trying to start the thing for weeks

Still nothing. Everything feels the same when kicking it but it hasn’t kicked back yet after like 100 attempts. Not sure if that’s a sign of something or I’m just hopefully kicking it a little more proper.

Any advice at all would be much appreciated because at this point I’m kind of stumped. Thanks so much.

 

[Jan_P]

Fuse check would be first
Check the kill switch
Then take out a plug ground it to the cylinder head ( important to ground it please read on the forum how to do it )
se if there is spark

 

[willis]

Did the battery hold a charge? These bikes need a good battery to run.

 

[Mjohnm]

Did the battery hold a charge? These bikes need a good battery to run.

Multimeter is reading 13v.

I will look up how to check the fuse as well.

 

[Melnic]

full choke while your kicking?
Were the old plugs resistive also (BPR7ES)? Cause if they did not have the R in the part #, then that might be the problem right there? Don't know if the 80 XS had resistive caps standard or 0 ohm.
Are the plugs wet at all after choke and kicking a number of times?
Have you thought about spraying some carb start in just to get it to turn over or start?
Does it have a vacuum operated petcock and did you set it to prime and wait 30 seconds for bowls to fill?

 

[GLJ]

I can feel the kick engaging but nothing else happens.

What do you mean by that?
The kicker goes to the bottom of stroke but the motor doesn't turn or the kicker won't move or something else.

 

[Mjohnm]

What do you mean by that?
The kicker goes to the bottom of stroke but the motor doesn't turn or the kicker won't move or something else.

I can feel the kicker turning the motor yes

 

[Mjohnm]

full choke while your kicking?
Were the old plugs resistive also (BPR7ES)? Cause if they did not have the R in the part #, then that might be the problem right there? Don't know if the 80 XS had resistive caps standard or 0 ohm.
Are the plugs wet at all after choke and kicking a number of times?
Have you thought about spraying some carb start in just to get it to turn over or start?
Does it have a vacuum operated petcock and did you set it to prime and wait 30 seconds for bowls to fill?

The old plugs were RN7YC Champion, but I had read on here some people recommending the BPR7ES so that’s what I went with.

The new plugs are not wet at all after kicking and trying to start for the last while. They still look brand new.

Yes to vacuum operated petcock. Tried priming it while kicking of course. Thought I might have overdid it which is why I drained the carbs eventually just in case.

Yes to full choke while kicking, and half choke during some attempts as well, and no choke for some attempts.

Haven’t thought about using carb start but I’ll have to look that up.

 

[Jim]

Try taking a plug lead off, connecting an old plug to it and see if you get spark when you kick it. It sounds like ignition to me after reading the above. Let's see if you have spark?

Does the electric start work?

 

[Mjohnm]

Try taking a plug lead off, connecting an old plug to it and see if you get spark when you kick it. It sounds like ignition to me after reading the above. Let's see if you have spark?

Does the electric start work?

Ok I’ll try this. Is there a reason why you’d use the old plug rather than the new? And you do this while touching the threads of the plug on to the engine as well to ground it, is that right?
Thanks!

 

[Jim]

Is there a reason why you’d use the old plug rather than the new?

Yeah, using the old plug means you don't have to remove one of the new ones. You can if you want, but since it was running with the old, might as well try it.
Yes, ground the plug to the engine via the threads

 

[Mjohnm]

Yeah, using the old plug means you don't have to remove one of the new ones. You can if you want, but since it was running with the old, might as well try it.
Yes, ground the plug to the engine via the threads

Ok so it’s even more difficult to kick this thing while holding the plug to the engine on my own haha. but I eventually managed it with the old plug and it looks like there’s spark, thanks to me videoing it otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to notice.

 

[Mjohnm]

Latest update :
Ok so basically just persistently kicking this damn thing eventually got it to run for 5-10 seconds. I guess that’s an ok sign but I’m still stumped. Will continue to keep kicking until my leg falls off which might happen sooner than later

 

[Jan_P]

Latest update :
Ok so basically just persistently kicking this damn thing eventually got it to run for 5-10 seconds. I guess that’s an ok sign but I’m still stumped. Will continue to keep kicking until my leg falls off which might happen sooner than later

Can need some technique to find it for kick start it varies
I use something like having it on the center stand
Have it on full choke
Ignition off 2 or 3 priming kicks turning it over sucking in some fuel these priming kicks does not need to be hard kicks
ON at ignition
I use the right leg standing at the right side of the bike
jumping up
Coming down I kick hard
Do not extend the leg straight if it should kick back it is bad for the leg
Different choke positions can be tried even no choke

 

[Wingedwheel]

How many miles are showing on the gauge? Running badly and reluctant to start is normally ignition like Jim stated. I ask about the miles because the cam chain may be stretched and altering the timing. You also said the new plugs appear dry? Try the starter fluid and see what that does And I’m assuming since you’re kicking away the e-start isn’t working? Your issue may be a simple adjustment, but eliminate one thing at a time. Here’s a link for you.
http://biker.net/650parts_index.html

 

[Mjohnm]

How many miles are showing on the gauge? Running badly and reluctant to start is normally ignition like Jim stated. I ask about the miles because the cam chain may be stretched and altering the timing. You also said the new plugs appear dry? Try the starter fluid and see what that does And I’m assuming since you’re kicking away the e-start isn’t working? Your issue may be a simple adjustment, but eliminate one thing at a time. Here’s a link for you.
http://biker.net/650parts_index.html

The odometer is toast. Previous owner had no idea how many miles were on it. He had also said the electronic start generally doesn’t work so he’s just always kicked it. Using the e-start now at least sounds like it’s trying to start but no luck.

Didn’t think about the starter fluid either. Should I be spraying it into the air box and then kick it? I’d be using carb cleaner in this case unless recommended otherwise.

I’ll try to look into the cam chain adjustment as well.

Thanks for all the advice so far from everyone. Learning a lot.

 

[Mjohnm]

Ok, the cam chain adjuster needed a bit of tightening, but the main thing I adjusted was the clutch adjuster screw.

Most people I’ve seen adjusting it online have suggested basically tightening the screw in until there’s any resistance, then going back about a 1/4 turn, then tightening the 12mm locknut around it pretty snug. I did this previously a few times but this time I went a touch tighter (didn’t back it out the 1/4 turn either) and it seems to have made a big difference with the kickstart. I got it started 4 times all around 5-10 kicks. So it’s starting slightly more reliably, but a big issue right now is it feels like it’ll kick back on me real bad at least once or twice for every one time I can get it running.

Another small change I noticed is finding TDC with the kicker feels a bit trickier now , and it also seems to be when the kicker is around 270 degrees (so basically straight horizontal) whereas before - TDC and your kick would start around 330 degrees (almost vertical). Thought I’d mention just in case it’s an indication of anything.

The clutch is still hard as hell to pull in but it’s still manageable.

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated. My only ideas at this point are just continuing to fiddle with the clutch adjustment screw but it’s honestly been pretty daunting because kicking it is just ruining my leg because of the amount it’s kicking back on me now.

 

[Jan_P]

Not read through but the kickback and difficult starting I would suspect to advanced ignition
Can be other things as well
Is it stock ignition ? Pictures ?
Is it any difference right and left Cylinder ?

 

[Wingedwheel]

Clutch may be hard to pull because the cable needs a good oiling and the cam might need some fresh grease.(that’s the thing you tightened). If you have it in too far the clutch can slip. You can pull the left cover off to get to all that without making a mess.

 

[arcticXS]

Another thing I would check is actual voltage at the coil + terminal. The power to the coils run through a lot of connectors and switches, so there often will be significant resistance/ voltage drop, which results in a weak spark. Even if you can see a spark when holding the plug against the head, it does not necessarily mean there will be a spark when it is installed in the engine. It is harder for the spark to jump across when there is 10 times atmospheric pressure inside the cylinder...Do you have points or TCI (electronic) ignition?