Oldie but new to XS650s

[madmax-im]

Well i have owned and ridden yamahas since 1983 when i bought my 1982 XJ1100 maxim..I kept it 30 yrs as regretfully sold it back in 2012...
I have owned a variety of bikes but nothing too extensive..My only experience with parallel twins came in 1990 when i bought a 1978 Yamaha XS400 with an aftermarket 4to1 exhaust that backfired and popped alot on de-accel...that was good as it scared off the deer and other wildlife too..
But that parallel twin was a beast..and not in a good way...Those motors vibrate so bad that at 50mph the mirrors are totally useless..after 50 miles my hands and forearms are numb...and my backside aches from the crappy seat...so here we are XS650s..parallel twins....
Are the XS650s better motors..sounds like a dumb question but..
How do they ride..is there enough power ? Do they vibrate you to death? They certainly look cool and they suck me in big time for the classic vintage parallel twin looks...but how good is it as a daily rider?
I have always preferred inline 4s because of their inherent smoothness and power delivery...
I did read some tech articles on re-phasing the XS650 motor..but how many folks have actually done this?

 

[motormike]

Here's my nickle's worth.... Yup.. they can be a paint shaker... but with different sprockets the vibrations move away from the cruise speed and it greatly improves the ride. I put 17-32 or 31 sprockets on my XS units.. the Special is much happier. Of course Special seats don't allow much movement for the kister.
I'v done many miles a day on mine....(500) and have no complaints. I avoid the freeway since you'll get a Peterbuilt enema unless you're do'n 80 mph. Daily rider.. yes... back roads wave at the farmer... yes.
The engine is pretty much rock soild. The basic XS platform leans itself well to many directions… bobber,, cafe'.. chopper.. old school….

 

[madmax-im]

Cool..interesting to see all the variations on a theme with these bikes..quite a bit of creativity..and most of it is well done...even the hard tailed choppers... I am prolly too old to allow myself to vibrated to death..so mods to improve the vibes are appreciated. i have read that re-phasing the motor really smooths it out plus improves power delivery. However that seems to be a drastic bit of engineering..beyond my capabilities but something i would prolly want done on any parallel twin i'd own.

 

[5twins]

I feel that if you just tune the bike up good enough, it doesn't vibrate too badly. Sure, it vibrates, but I don't find it to be excessive. And this is coming from a guy who's main ride used to be BMWs before this, lol. Of course, the 650 isn't (and never will be) a high speed interstate cruiser like those bikes, but it's a wonderful all around machine. It's big and powerful enough to do some interstate cruising, heavy enough (but not too heavy) to ride OK. But it's also small and light enough to maneuver around town and in parking lots very well. For mostly local riding, I feel it's about the perfect size. If you get one, I think you'll like it.

Besides the obvious very classic look, these machines are very easy to work on. Parts availability is also very good. If you're going to choose an older bike to own and ride, these are 2 very important factors to consider. There's also the support for this particular machine to consider. It has a very big following and many small updates and improvements have been devised by owners, then posted to the web. If you like to tinker, this is your dream bike, lol. Thoroughly gone through and updated, you can make the 650 into a very competent and dependable machine. And it looks good while doing it.

 

[madmax-im]

I feel that if you just tune the bike up good enough, it doesn't vibrate too badly. Sure, it vibrates, but I don't find it to be excessive. And this is coming from a guy who's main ride used to be BMWs before this, lol. Of course, the 650 isn't (and never will be) a high speed interstate cruiser like those bikes, but it's a wonderful all around machine. It's big and powerful enough to do some interstate cruising, heavy enough (but not too heavy) to ride OK. But it's also small and light enough to maneuver around town and in parking lots very well. For mostly local riding, I feel it's about the perfect size. If you get one, I think you'll like it.

Besides the obvious very classic look, these machines are very easy to work on. Parts availability is also very good. If you're going to choose an older bike to own and ride, these are 2 very important factors to consider. There's also the support for this particular machine to consider. It has a very big following and many small updates and improvements have been devised by owners, then posted to the web. If you like to tinker, this is your dream bike, lol. Thoroughly gone through and updated, you can make the 650 into a very competent and dependable machine. And it looks good while doing it.

Appreciate the words of wisdom and your insights as well..Absolutely an advantage to come late to the party as there is a wealth of information on the how tos' and just knowledge..that is well supported by this and other websites...I am retired from LD riding so that certainly is not the mission here. neither are interstate hwys..these are 2 laners and around town fun..Would be trailered to the VYR.. But being older i do need some comforts and i am not certain i can be comfortable on these bikes without trying one out beforehand...As is with most things ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances...
Yamaha has never done me wrong...well except for that XS400..that was short lived...

 

[Jim]

I had an XS400. Other than the lack of grunt, I thought it was a pretty good bike. The 400 gave you more of a "buzz" than vibration. And yeah.... it tended to numb your hands and butt. The 650 definitely vibrates more than the 400... but it's different... not as tiring as the buzz from the 400.

 

[madmax-im]

I liked the XS400 around town and local backroads... it got 70 mpg but 75 mph was max. on mine.. they are tall for a 400cc bike

 

[5twins]

Twins in general produce more low end and midrange power, more torque, than a four. That's what makes the 650 so well suited and so much fun around town and in the lower RPMs. It has a lot of low end "grunt". I feel they do benefit from a small gearing change, but just a small one, to smooth out higher RPM and higher speed running. Change the gearing too much and you kill that lower speed/RPM grunt and the bike's "fun factor". I drop one tooth on the rear sprocket with an 18" wheel, two teeth is OK with a 16" rear wheel, but that's it.

 

[madmax-im]

Normally I am a purist and mostly appreciate OEM form..that is especially true with the bigger bikes like the XS/XJ1100 Yamahas. But it is obvious that there are many different takes on a theme and it seems the XS650s lend themselves well to being modded..chopped and bobbed..Personally.. the hardtailed choppers look cool but are too extreme for me..but i do like the cafe' racer and street tracker/scrambler looks though...theres some amazing machines out there...

 

[Jim]

...theres some amazing machines out there...

Click on the calendar link on the front page. Gives you a good idea of what's doable....

 

[5twins]

Personally, I do what we call a "resto-mod". I update and upgrade the mechanical and electrical stuff to make it better, update the brakes and suspension, change the handlebars to something a bit lower and sportier (Euro bars), but no really radical changes. Nothing that couldn't be changed back if I wanted to, and NO cutting off stuff, lol. Obviously, this isn't free, but generally it costs less to do on this bike than on many others.

 

[motormike]

I've heard and seen a re-phased XS... nice lumpy sound.... but I wonder if the $$$ Vs return is worth it... didn't ride it... owner claimed it was better then stock.
I've done 2 750 (sleeve) kits.. and with the smaller rear sprocket they performed very well. I think less $$$ then a split case re-phased project. Both my current XS units.. are basically stock. Years ago I rode my 82' to Yellowstone and back to Deadwood Via Montana .. look for my lic/plate if your go through that area.. it vibrated off between Custer 2n place park and Spearfish.

 

[5twins]

Just keep watching your local classifieds. These bikes are getting harder to find, and the prices are creeping up, but real good deals still pop up. Keep in mind that nearly all of these need some work, some T.L.C., even the really good looking ones.

 

[madmax-im]

Personally, I do what we call a "resto-mod". I update and upgrade the mechanical and electrical stuff to make it better, update the brakes and suspension, change the handlebars to something a bit lower and sportier (Euro bars), but no really radical changes. Nothing that couldn't be changed back if I wanted to, and NO cutting off stuff, lol. Obviously, this isn't free, but generally it costs less to do on this bike than on many others.

That is pretty much my take..even with the XS1100s..if it improves function while still retaining original form with a small variation..then I am open to it...but cutting frames and hardtailing is not something I would want to do or own.
I really like the scrambler look..i borrowed this image from the gallery over at the 650Society forum...

 

[madmax-im]

I've heard and seen a re-phased XS... nice lumpy sound.... but I wonder if the $$$ Vs return is worth it... didn't ride it... owner claimed it was better then stock.
I've done 2 750 (sleeve) kits.. and with the smaller rear sprocket they performed very well. I think less $$$ then a split case re-phased project. Both my current XS units.. are basically stock. Years ago I rode my 82' to Yellowstone and back to Deadwood Via Montana .. look for my lic/plate if your go through that area.. it vibrated off between Custer 2n place park and Spearfish.

Ha ha..very interesting...thats what i like about forums like these..all the various fixes and work arounds that normally one would not be in a positon to know..
Thanks for the information...Apparently the re-phasing is a big project and one not to be undertaken lightly...Its way beyond my money and skill to perform...

 

[madmax-im]

Just keep watching your local classifieds. These bikes are getting harder to find, and the prices are creeping up, but real good deals still pop up. Keep in mind that nearly all of these need some work, some T.L.C., even the really good looking ones.

I have been looking all over the country..but i will most likely wait until i see what people bring to the VYR in Sept. I also need the time to save some $$$ which I am doing...

 

[650Skull]

Re-phasing is an interesting concept. Most racers do a 270 re-phase and this involves splitting and using parts from 2 cranks and specially made crank pins......Cuts vibration but also shifts vibration to another plane.........Big $$

http://www.xs650.com/threads/better...st-than-never-to-have-re-phased-at-all.26581/

277 re-phasing is twisting the crank halves 3 splines and putting back together.........As with the 270 the cam has to be altered and the ignition has to be altered as well..........Not a lot of $ especially if the crank has to be worked on then it is a few $'s more than a normal rebuild...............The vibration is less than a standard 360 XS650 and cannot be seen through the mirrors and shifted to another plane..........Some who have done the 277 say they would not do it again due to the vibration still making the hands numb after a couple of hours travel..........every one i know who has done this also say the vibration is still a negative.

Having carbs set up and balanced properly and timing spot on helps to deduce vibration and there is some though that the crank has to have next to no run out to help the vibration. The tolerances on crank run out may vary slightly between bikes from the factory and this could also be a factor. All XS650s will vibrate but for my experience i have done a few rides longer than a day and it is a part of the bike and makes it what it is.

 

[5twins]

Yep, the 650 is what it is, and in my mind, that's a real honest to goodness old school motorcycle. It vibrates some and is a little rough around the edges, but that's how I think bikes should be. You know you're riding a motorcycle when you're on a 650. If I want all the creature comforts, I'll hop in my car, lol. Being so "old school", the 650 does require a bit more care and maintenance than a new bike, but I don't mind that.

 

[madmax-im]

Those are all fine points and thankyou all for sharing them...I dont think I want to eliminate the vibrations ..its just wether or not i can tolerate them..25 yrs ago i could but these days not as well or for as long.
Unique to me is the fact that i am retired and on a fixed income..i wrecked my last bike and am in the process of finding a new to me ride...I can only afford 1 bike so it has to be comfortable enough that i can ride it without my body going into shock and rebellion..so to say..

 

[madmax-im]

Re-phasing is an interesting concept. Most racers do a 270 re-phase and this involves splitting and using parts from 2 cranks and specially made crank pins......Cuts vibration but also shifts vibration to another plane.........Big $$

http://www.xs650.com/threads/better...st-than-never-to-have-re-phased-at-all.26581/

277 re-phasing is twisting the crank halves 3 splines and putting back together.........As with the 270 the cam has to be altered and the ignition has to be altered as well..........Not a lot of $ especially if the crank has to be worked on then it is a few $'s more than a normal rebuild...............The vibration is less than a standard 360 XS650 and cannot be seen through the mirrors and shifted to another plane..........Some who have done the 277 say they would not do it again due to the vibration still making the hands numb after a couple of hours travel..........every one i know who has done this also say the vibration is still a negative.

Having carbs set up and balanced properly and timing spot on helps to deduce vibration and there is some though that the crank has to have next to no run out to help the vibration. The tolerances on crank run out may vary slightly between bikes from the factory and this could also be a factor. All XS650s will vibrate but for my experience i have done a few rides longer than a day and it is a part of the bike and makes it what it is.

I read that thread earlier..Thanks