Penetrating Oils . . . INTERESTING FACTS!

[I am Carbon]

Machinist's Workshop MagT recently published some information on various
penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might
appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break
out torque on rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically
rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen*

No Oil used ............ ....... 516 pounds
WD-40 ............ ......... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............ ........ 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............ ...127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ ........ 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix......... ...53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any
commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with
equally good results.
Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" for about 20%
of the price.

Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is best, but you can
also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50-50 mix. *ATF=Automatic
Transmission Fluid
This actually works well, power-steering fluid also works as well as trans
fluid!

 

[Square Circle]

Cool, reminds me of an old science teacher that was rumored to have routinely washed his hair with tide to save $$

 

[HooliganCycles]

i have used atf and acetone mix for a long time, it has never let me down. the only problem i have ever had with it, is depending on what container i mix it in it sometimes eats the material in the spray nozzle.

 

[DogBunny]

Exactly. Acetone may be a great penetrant, but it will destroy some rubbers, plastics and paints. The commercial formulations have to be safe on all surfaces, so they can't use powerful solvents.

 

[Marvelicious]

I first saw this quoted some time ago, but I've never seen any more than what was quoted here: nothing about what their actual testing methodology was, sample size, etc... Not to throw cold water on it, but my default setting is 'skeptic'.

For what it is worth, treat acetone with the respect it deserves, it is nasty stuff. Also, the savings on Liquid Wrench over Kroil tend to diminish when you buy the gallon jug. Only way to buy Kroil in my opinion!

Edit: Kroil has gone up since I last looked, but if you buy it direct from Kano Labs, it's about 50 bucks a gallon vs half that for Liquid Wrench. For as long as a gallon lasts me, I'll pay the extra.

 

[Scrambled]

Cool, reminds me of an old science teacher that was rumored to have routinely washed his hair with tide to save $$

I wash my hair in tide 'cause it too damn cold out tide.

 

[gggGary]

OK if you use acetone / ATF what are you using for your storage / dispensing container? And damn I just bought 4 more spray cans of BP Blaster. I like that stuff. Once a can is open Acetone disappears in one big hurry. I see rust dissolve off the metal all the time with PB blaster.....

"I wash my hair in tide 'cause it too damn cold out tide." chuckle.

 

[Scrambled]

The only problem I see with acetone / ATF mix is that it will destroy paint and clear coat . I use Release-all , not sure if you get that brand in the States ( or anywhere else ) , it is half the price of WD-40 and works twice as well. ( Note; WD-40 is not a penetrating oil, it is a water repellent for old auto electrical parts . Spray it on old distributor caps and wires , that's what it was meant to do. )

 

[I am Carbon]

I agree WG-40 was made for that.I had a dodge that the distributor cap would get wet on the inside in a big rain.WD-40 fixed it quickly.

 

[Scrambled]

I agree WG-40 was made for that.I had a dodge that the distributor cap would get wet on the inside in a big rain.WD-40 fixed it quickly.

The trick is to spray stuff before it rains .

 

[smoker]

OK if you use acetone / ATF what are you using for your storage / dispensing container?

I would like to know this as well. Of course you wouldn't want to use it on nice clear coat or rubber parts, but it sounds like it would be worth a try on less delicate parts.

 

[HooliganCycles]

I usually just mix it in a plastic spray bottle, it has never seemed to bother the bottle just the nozzle, and it still sprays just not great but it doesnt take much to get the job done. I use to love pb blaster which i will still use at times but for the really stuck stuff i go with atf acetone..... Obviously dont let it sit on your paint but i have sprayed it on paint before and as long as you wipe it off it hasnt caused any problems, doesnt need to sit on the rusted stuff long either

 

[Marvelicious]

If I had some assembly that was a big rusted lump, or some other project where I needed a quite a bit of penetrant, I might mix up a batch. For everyday use it is just a bit 'hot' for my tastes. For those of you who like it, you might try one of those refillable spray cans - they make versions with viton seals, which I believe would stand up to acetone.

 

[DogBunny]

 

[Marvelicious]

So you aren't spending money on the penetrating oil or the dispenser? What are you going to spend all that saved money on? 650 parts?

 

[1974jh5]

I've never used Kano Kroil or the ATF/acetone brew and WD40 is definitely no penetrant. I have used Liquid Wrench and PB Blaster, of the two I had the best results with PB. Corrosion is the main reason I used them, on non corroded fasteners it might be a different story.

Something else I learned: on metal drain plug gaskets, either copper or aluminum, wipe both sides with a little oil before assembly. That will pretty much guarantee no leaks. Plastic washers don't need this done.

 

[Okie]

Marvelicious is right, acetone is nasty stuff if absorbed thru your skin, it can cause permenant nerve damage. I used it for over 30 years. You should use gloves if you use it frequently. We used it in plastic spray bottles to remove paint and remove excess hydraulic fluid. A well aimed spray will also drop a wasp in his tracks, it instantly freezes them.

 

[pamcopete]

Well, I guess the answer is to not use the Acetone / ATF mixture unless all the others fail, then just mix up a batch to do the job.

I have found that Liquid Wrench is the best for seized bolts. I have never had to use anything stronger. I once used Liquid Wrench to loosen the spark plugs in a 6 cylinder engine with over 100,000 mile that never had a spark plug change. I could not loosen the plugs regardless of what I tried, but I always used a torque wrench so I would not break the spark plug and have to tear the engine down to fix it. I finally squirted some Liquid Wrench in the spark plug wells and left it over night. The next morning the plugs came out like there never was a problem. That is a reminder. Modern cars have a recommended spark plug change interval of 100,000 miles, but you should change them mote often to avoid having them seize in the head. If you vehicle has the more expensive Iridium plugs, then you can remove them, check the condition and gap, and put them back in with a touch of spark plug anti seize on the threads.

 

[1974jh5]

A buddy had plugs stuck in a 22RE Toyota, he was able to loosen them about 1/4 turn and they then stuck so tight he was afraid he would break one. He shot them with PB and Liquid Wrench, no dice. He then used cutting oil and damn if that didn't work. It loosened them up some, he ran the engine till it was hot and used some more, they then came right out. Turned out to be carbon in the bottom few plug threads.

 

[gggGary]

Ran into this on "one of those" web crawls.

There was a followup to that article in the February/March 2010 issue of Machinist's Workshop. A reader complained that acetone and ATF do not mix. They actually form an emulsion that quickly separates.

The editor then pointed out that the photo with the original article showed a bottle of power steering fluid, not ATF. So the reader tried PSF and got the same results.

The editor then contacted the author (Lloyd Bender) of the original article (April/May 2007 Machinist's Workshop), who admitted that the original solvent was not acetone, but trichloroethelyne! He said that he substituted acetone in the article because he didn't want want to be recommending the use of TCE.

The author did the testing with TCE, then substituted acetone when he wrote the article. But no actual testing was done with acetone until a reader actually tried it and found that the mixture separated, then he complained. The magazine (and editor) did no testing themselves.

To repeat: The results published in the April/May 2007 issue of Machinist's Workshop (at least for ATF/Acetone) are BOGUS. The author lied about it. He actually tested ATF/TCE, then claimed that it was ATF/Acetone, because he didn't want to be recommending the use of TCE.

And a side note mentioned in that thread is about how many cleaners/lubricants can form very toxic gases if they are subsequently exposed to high heat (like if you spray a bolt down, and then hit it with a torch; or if you spray something down and then weld it).