PMA question

[Tsmall609]

Im sure this is a redundant question but i'm having trouble finding an exact answer...

I have a 1980 xs650, just bought the TC bros pma for it. I'm looking to go battery less/ kick only. I would like to put a pamco electronic ignition on it, but i've been told that using a capacitor won't work with the pamco electronic ignition and e-advancer (the tc bros at least, dont know the success rate of the sparks). Do I HAVE to use a mechanical advance in order to run with a capacitor? But mainly my question is: what EXACTLY do i need on this bike, with the pma, to have the pamco/e-advancer running well and correctly for a battery less/kick only set up. I have a bin full of shit from buying it but i dont mind buying all new shit so i'm sure it will work with no surprises.

Again, sorry if this has been asked before but i'm trying to nail down an exact answer.
thanks.

 

[pamcopete]

There are many members here who have successfully installed a PMA with a Capacitor for a kick only setup using the PAMCO E-Advancer. TC brothers does not recommend that setup with their PMA. Neither does MikesXS when using their capacitor. The basic issue is that the E-Advancer needs at least 8 Volts of clean DC to boot, as it is a complete computer, or actually an MCU (Micro Controller Unit). When you kick start the engine, there is initially zero voltage on the capacitor. You are relying on the PMA to charge the capacitor to at least 8 Volts in the time it takes to kick start.. This means that there should be no other load on the capacitor (headlights, etc.) and that the capacitor has sufficient capacity to charge up with each pulse from the PMA as the current from the PMA is a series of cycles as each magnet passes over each of the coils. There is a paradox here, as a capacitor with too high a capacity actually is more difficult to charge. Kinda like filling a large bucket very rapidly. So, the choice of the capacitor is critical to the success of the kick only setup, and unfortunately there are a myriad of capacitor / PMA combinations, some work, some don't.

What happens is that the PAMCO MCU wakes up when it sees 8 Volts and then goes through its boot sequence, which includes measuring the timing between two magnets of one set of two magnets after determining that the sequence of North and South magnets is correct, which can take a complete revolution of the engine. The MCU then looks up the time between the two verified magnets to select an appropriate advance time, and in the case of a starting sequence, decide to actually retard the timing if the timing of the magnets is equivalent to a engine speed of less that 200 RPM. If the complete initial sequence is not completed in the time it takes to kick the engine over, then there will be no spark as the MCU is then deprived of the necessary 8 Volts before it has completed its calculations.

Perhaps a member who has a successful kick only capacitor setup using a PAMCO E-Advancer can join us here and describe his setup in detail. All I can say is that the standard PAMCO with the stock mechanical advancer only requires 6 volts to operate and it doe not have a wake up sequence and intrinsically determines the correct North South magnet sequence.

 

[Tsmall609]

damn. i was hoping that there was a clear defined solution. very informative though, thanks for the great explanation. well, i'm not married to the pamco e-advancer set up. if i had to buy the mechanical advance set up for the 1980, what exactly all do i need. I'm sure i could scrap parts but thats something i would want to buy brand new. obviously i need the capacitor but i'm looking for all i need on the other side, besides the pma.