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Rebuilding 1978 XS650E "Miyuki"

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Camilo, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorn Gang Member Top Contributor

    On the rusty tank it is usually better to add a couple of handfuls of gravel or drywall screws and then shake this about. It will knock off all the flaky lumps and then a rust remover or acid will strip the thinner remaining coating of rust.

    I recently bought 1kg of citric acid on Ebay and it only cost about £6 including p+p. It works well but takes quite a lot of time. 1kg is good for 10 litres of water.

    If you want HCl then you will find it under its old name, Muriatic Acid. You can find it at all the DIY stores and it is what's sold for cleaning mortar off brick work.

    Will you leave the inside of the tank as bare metal? Do you have any experience with internal tank coatings that are available in the UK? I am interested in this because I have a tank that needs cleaning, similar condition to yours.

    Thank you.
     
    YamadudeXS650C likes this.
  2. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Camilo,
    best not use anything to clean out the tank's innards that can't be removed with a magnet.
    And nice the way your tools are on show rather than having to be groped out of a toolbox but why not use pegboard?
     
  3. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Just go and buy some cheap supermarket brand white vinegar.........Don't have to water it down and leave in the tank for no more than 4 days or less depending on the severity of the rust..............A good rinse with an neutralizer, (baking soda is good), then another rinse with something like WD40 to disperse any water

    Good for cleaning all metal parts but be careful on anything with a thread because it will eat the thread edges before it cleans all the rust
     
  4. Camilo

    Camilo XS650 Member

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    Good point Paul, I added some nuts and bolts to the mixture and gave it a shake, but maybe would have been more effective before adding the cleaning solution.

    No experience I'm afraid, total beginner. I bought this stuff called Rostio. Instructions say dilute 1 litre of cleaning solution in 9 litres of hot water (i assume the cleaning solution is some kind of strong acid). Once it has worked its magic rinse out the tank with water then pour in undiluted protection chemical, swirl it around and dump out the excess. The instructions are specific about it needing to be free of any grease or oil before adding the cleaning solution, so I will pour out the cleaning solution already in the tank, rinse with meths, then follow the instructions and let you know what happens..

    I'd have to pay money for a pegboard, and the perfectly sized previously painted plywood was already sitting in the scrap pile ;) Joking aside I might get some proper hooks and do a less hamfisted job. Thanks for the suggestion about using magnetic medium for cleaning, dust and grit could be annoying to remove.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  5. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    A chunk of light chain for shaking loose tank rust. Only need to fish out ONE thing lol.
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  6. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorn Gang Member Top Contributor

    Nice one gggGary. I have a Virago tank were it will be very difficult to fish out screws or gravel. Luckily I have some chain. Will have a try today.
     
  7. ThatXS650Guy

    ThatXS650Guy More Sparky than Speed Racer

    Paul Sutton likes this.
  8. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Paul,
    if your Virago tank has a tube inside like my XS11 Standard tank a chain WILL get caught in it and WON'T come out.
    Should this occur for you, just leave the bastard in there. Do NOT emulate Mr Stupid and cut the tank up to remove it.
     
    Paul Sutton and peanut like this.
  9. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorn Gang Member Top Contributor

    Thanks Fred. My spelling may be bad but I claim not to be stupid... I tried the chain but the vent pipe prevents cleaning up the center where the worst rust is. I plan to set-up for electrolysis today to see how that goes.
     
  10. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorn Gang Member Top Contributor

    Camilo, I tried a chain followed by a 1/4lb of 25mm nails. I cannot say it did much except roughen the surface of the rust. I then rinsed the tank with petrol followed by a thorough water wash with detergent. I then setup the electrolysis process as per Tavis' instructions on Page 1 of the link given above by ThatXS650Guy. I used 3 heaped teaspoons of sodium carbonate i.e. 1 per gallon. Every 2 hours I cleaned the electrode because it was getting quite dirty. My auto battery charger would not work as others have stated, so I used my 13.4V supply. Depending on how clean the 4 inchs of active electrode was the current was between 0.5 and 0.8 Amps.
    Setup.JPG

    Open.JPG
    After 5 hours the water was very discoloured so I emptied the tank and refilled with clean water and 3 heaped teaspoons of sodium carbonate (washing soda). The tank was much improved with bare shiny metal everywhere. The remaining areas are quite heavy with rust so it may be a couple of days before I get it finished. Erosion of the electrode is quite obvious.

    Conclusion: Worth a try if you already have a manual charger or power supply. My supply is from Halfords for running the portable cool box on mains power.

    Edit1: This tank has an internal vent tube so no pressure build up will occur with the electrode stopper in tight. With the XS tank pressure will build-up so drill another hole in the stopper. I removed the petcock (the alloy will not enjoy the electrolysis) and sealed the hole with a piece of 4mm plastic from an old kitchen chopping board and some silicone sealant wiped on. It was held in place with the petcock screws.

    Edit2: After 10 hours there has been a huge improvement. The tank is getting very clean and the thicker rust has gone soft and breaks up when rubbed - If only I could get my hand in there to scrub it all free. I will run it for another 2 hours then switch it off until tomorrow.

    Edit3: I ran the electrolysis for a further 7 hours while at work. When I returned home and checked the electrode was heavily corroded and the current had dropped to 0.02 Amp. Once cleaned the current returned to approximately 0.8 Amp. I recommend cleaning the electrode every 2 hours.

    Edit4: After a total of 26 hours electrolysis most of the rust was removed. That which remained was soft so I filled the tank with 1kg Citric acid pre-dissolved in hot water: Ratio approximately 1:13 and others have recommended 1:10. After 1 hour most rust had gone and at 2 hours all remaining rust had been dissolved. I then emptied the tank and rinse several times with water. After draining the water the tank was rinsed with 500ml methylated spirits, emptied and then rinsed with another 500ml of methylated spirits to remove the water. After draining the tank it was then rinsed with petrol containing some motor oil and then dried to leave a very light film of protective oil.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
    peanut, TwoManyXS1Bs and ThatXS650Guy like this.
  11. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorn Gang Member Top Contributor

    Camilo, I hope all is well with your tank. Below is a photo looking into my tank after electrolysis for 26 hours followed by soaking with citric acid (all details have been added to my entry above):
    Tank.JPG
    Click photo to expand. The darker looking patches are where the surface has been eroded by the heavy rusting. Originally the inside of my tank looked very much like yours.
     
    peanut, Camilo and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  12. Camilo

    Camilo XS650 Member

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    Nice work Paul, thanks for the info. I ended up using an entire bottle of mystery liquid I bought in a hardware store, "Swarfega Multi Purpose Surface Cleaner". Appeared to contain strong acid. Did a reasonable job of clearing up the inside of the tank. Got it to this state:
    [​IMG]

    Which was a decent improvement. Took several days, possibly because I left it outside in the cold. Then I tried "Rostio tank rust remover" kit I bought on Amazon. Looks like it is made in Germany. Which got me here:
    [​IMG]

    I'm pretty happy with those results given how bad it was to start!

    It's been a long time since my last update, working on the tank was the last thing I got done before I disappeared off to Cuba for a bit, then got scared of the cold dark garage. I saw a Yamaha that had somehow made its way past the blockade:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    peanut likes this.
  13. Camilo

    Camilo XS650 Member

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    Shout out to MaxPete for his rant on JIS drivers. Finally gave in an ordered some original JDM vessel drivers ;)
    [​IMG]

    Also big shout out to 5twins for this post, was very confused about how to remove the rear wheel bearings. I've added some photos for anyone else, thankfully it's straightforward.

    First, heat it up, makes the job 10x easier.
    [​IMG]

    Then, find a socket (I think 17mm worked for me) that fits on the innermost metal ring visible from the sprocket side of the hub. Make sure it's clear of the bearing, and just tap it through
    [​IMG]

    The RHS seal and bearing should fall out the other side, followed by the spacer and the top hat (which is actually what you were driving with the socket)
    [​IMG]

    Then flip the hub over and drive the LHS bearing and seal out. I used an engine bolt, and gently hit it alternating left and right sides of the inner race of the bearing until it popped out. Again with a generous application of heat, and the thing popped out after a few dozen taps.
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Camilo

    Camilo XS650 Member

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    Lastly I've started to try and clean things up, but I have no experience so I'm a bit lost. Started with the fork lowers. Tried a wire wheel on a dremel knockoff, but was far too small do make decent progress, then the tool started showering sparks out the side. Possibly blew it up. Then tried a flappy disc on a grinder, but it was a bit too aggressive. Then i tried some 120 grit sand paper, which did a good job of knocking the grime off and smoothing out around where the flappy disc left some gouges. Couldn't really get into and around the contours though.
    [​IMG]

    My brother left his air compressor in my position, so I purchased a new toy, a pneumatic die grinder and slapped a wire wheel in it. Shout out to mustie1 on youtube for this idea. Was a bit scared of putting a 4000rpm rated wheel in a 22000rpm rated rotary tool, but actually the air compressor isn't even powerful enough to run that thing at full speed. Especially when there's no safety guard on it. Face shield strongly recommended...
    [​IMG]

    Very happy with the tool, comfortable to use, much quieter then electric rotary tools, results were promising.
    [​IMG]

    Might hit it with a smaller diameter wire wheel to get the nooks and crannies then hopefully good enough to start polishing?
     
  15. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Start with paint stripper or at least some acetone to soften remove clearcoat then Blue 4" dico wheel in a 3/8" drill. Trust me. The best rough aluminum cleaning solution, and you won't be picking wires out of your eyeballs (face shield still highly recommended). In stock in MANY hardware isles.
    [​IMG]
    https://www.amazon.com/Dico-541-784...ocphy=9018980&hvtargid=pla-570686761141&psc=1
    I prefer to work with a windex bottle full of water with a touch of dish detergent really cuts the dust and speeds the action.
     
    Camilo and peanut like this.
  16. Camilo

    Camilo XS650 Member

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    Brilliant thanks Gary. I'll add that to the shopping list along with the engine cleaning brushes Mailman recommended in his massive 100+ page odyssey.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  17. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    That's a great rear wheel bearing removal how to!
    I added those pics to the rear wheel bearing removal thread in tech (with citation)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  18. Superjet

    Superjet XS650 Junkie XS650.com Supporter

    Nice trick with the heat! I got the same Vessel screw / impact drivers. They are real nice. I also got this one to help out with small carb screws and jets. Works real good.
    vessel.jpg
     
  19. cafetools

    cafetools XS650 Addict

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    GggGary, x2 on those wheels made of %100 plastic. The blue ones are 120 or 160 grit And the reds are 80 grit. They are perfect as a first step to polishing aluminum.
     
    gggGary likes this.

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