So how do ya think I did with my first Pamco/Hughs PMA setup?

[da evil one]

I like this. Gonna like it alot more when I fire it up after I get my hands on a capacitor that suits me. I installed the Pamco Ultimate on the bottom of the fake oil bag to let it breath per some suggestions versus inside it. It went smooth...measured the plug wires, cut em and stuck em. The lines look nice. The Hughs PMA went smooth except having to rent a puller from Autozone and having them lock up my account for a few. Oh well. Now I have to get my hand on a capacitor and a temporary battery to test fire it, time it up and have some fun. Ill post a video of the first start up when it happens...gonna be in the next few days to a week at best! Hope you guys like how it looks anyway!

 

[da evil one]

Oh, pay no mind to the camera date. every time I take the batteries out so it wont eat them it likes that date.

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

Help me understand the capacitor and battery thing. Why do you need a temp battery to fire it up?

 

[Mitchell_p]

Hey, I have a pamco installed. My PMA is being shipped as we speak. Had no idea i needed a capacitor? Whats a capacitor do anyway?

 

[da evil one]

Somebody is come along and say this better and smarter than me but heres what Ive got for the moment. The PMA kicks a shitload of juice when you kick it over and it has to have somewhere to go or else it will fry the Pamco. The capacitor takes that excess charge. It also stores enough charge to electric start your bike if you want to. From what I understand, with the Pamco/Hughs PMA setup you wont need electric start. A capacitor is just a really small battery and if you arent thinking about running a system without a full sized bike battery you dont need to worry about a capacitor. It's one or the other.

 

[tonyc]

The capacitor replaces your battery and is kick start only.

 

[da evil one]

Not necessarily Tony. They hold enough juice to electric start you IF your ignition and alternator only need to be hit once or twice to fire the bike.

 

[Mitchell_p]

ohhh ok i get yah. Im running the standard size battery for the XS so im happy.

 

[Brother]

With no battery, and just a cap you get kick start only. You arent going to get "electric start" out of a cap.

 

[pamcopete]

OK. Some clarification. The output of the alternator is Alternating Current (AC). The rectifier changes this to pulsating Direct Current (DC). You need either a capacitor or a battery to smooth out the pulsating DC to make it smooth. One of the main reasons that you need to smooth out the pulsating DC is for the regulator. The regulator reacts to the voltage that it sees coming from the rectifier. If that voltage is pulsating, then the regulator will chase the highs and lows and never be able to regulate the voltage steadily, resulting in wild fluctuations of voltage going to all of the electrical parts, not just the PAMCO. This can result in a barbecue of the electrical system..... This all stops if and when the PAMCO gets fried and the engine stops.

The analogy to all this is the action of a shock absorber on the suspension. If you did not have a shock absorber, the bike would gyrate up and down every time you hit a bump. The suspension would travel to its upper and lower limits with destructive force. That's what the voltage does without a battery or capacitor to smooth things out. So, the capacitor or battery acts like a shock absorber...

The recommendation to use a temporary external battery, sitting on the floor and not connected to the bikes electrical system to power the ignition system for the initial start of a PMA system is because the PMA will do one of three things on initial startup:

1. Nothing. No output. (Capacitor setup) The engine won't start because there is no power for the ignition system. You will break your leg trying to kick start it.
2. Start on the first kick with the voltage zooming to 20+ volts, frying the entire electrical system and boiling the battery or blowing the capacitor across the garage...
3. Start on the first kick and work perfectly, producing a steady and reliable 14.5 Volts. (Yeah, right..... )

So, if you have an external battery powering the ignition system the engine will start and you can quickly check the voltage on the bikes battery or capacitor. If it is zero or 20+ you can keep the idle low and trouble shoot the problem, including disconnecting wires without the engine stopping. If you have a battery setup, then shut the engine down immediately if the voltage exceeds 15 Volts. With a capacitor, you can continue to troubleshoot as long as the voltage does not exceed the capacitors rating, like, 25 or 35 Volts.

I also suggest that you wear an approved set of safety glasses for the initial startup.

 

[TurboFarviknugn]

1. Nothing. No output. The engine wont start because there is no power for the ignition system. You will break your leg trying to kick start it.

FUNNY NOTE: When Pete was helping me trouble shoot my system (Which turned out to have 1 of the 3 wired from the stator disconnected) I was kicking it over and it would KICK BACK ! I was like WHY THE HELL DO ALL THESE PEOPLE WANT KICK STARTS THAT KICK BACK LIKE THIS !?!?!?!? Since fixing the wire I have started it 6-8 times trying to locate oil leaks to fix while the engine is out and can HAPPILY report NO MORE KICK BACK !!!

BTW: Evil the install looks good, I Like where you put the COIL, what kinda mount did you use ?

 

[bened]

Not necessarily Tony. They hold enough juice to electric start you IF your ignition and alternator only need to be hit once or twice to fire the bike.

ummm. ill put it this way. a 10,000uf 50v cap, fully charged, had enough juice to click on a relay for all of 3 seconds... it takes less than an amp to activate a relay.

and this is going to turn over the electric starter? how?

 

[ember]

How would one go about testing the PMA separately from the Pamco when one has only a PMA and pamco plus small battery pack?
I have heard the warnings over and over about testing with an external battery for first start up, but I don't understand how to do this without points and such.

 

[da evil one]

i could be fully misinformed bened. i was under the impression some of them hold enough charge to electric start. turbo, i used the mounting stuff that came with the Pamco. its basically two small bolts with sleeves and two nuts about 2" long. i measured up and drilled two holes on the bottom of the fake oil bag and just bolted it on there. i think it turned out cool. i wanted it inside it but was advised against it due to heat so i figured it will breath fine there.

 

[sasquatch]

Pamcopete I am building a bike from the ground up. I have no wiring what so ever right now. Will I need a Regulator? If so What would you recommended? I will be running a battery for now but in the future the bike will be turned to kick only. I want to leave everything as simple as possible.

 

[pamcopete]

ember,

Well, to test the PMA the engine has to be running. That is why I sugest that you power the PAMCO from a seperate battery sitting on the floor not conencted to the bikes charging system. Once you get the engine running, you can trouble shoot the PMA.

1. Connect the red wire from the PAMCO to the battery positive terminal.
2. Connect the green wire from the PAMCO to one of the coil terminals.
3. Connect the black wire from the PAMCO to the bikes frame.
4. Connect the negative terminal from the battery to the bikles frame with just a clip so you can use this as your on off ignition switch.
5. Do not apply the ground from the battery negative terminal for more than a couple of minutes if the engine is not running.

Once you get the PMA working reliably, then, of course, you would wire the PAMCO to the bikes electrical system.

 

[pamcopete]

Pamcopete I am building a bike from the ground up. I have no wiring what so ever right now. Will I need a Regulator? If so What would you recommended? I will be running a battery for now but in the future the bike will be turned to kick only. I want to leave everything as simple as possible.

You can run with the battery only for a couple of hours, but you have to have a way to recharge the battery and that means an alternator and a rectifier and a regulator. No way around it.

 

[sasquatch]

The bike will have the PMA when done I just wanted to make she I put all the correct parts in when I get it built.

 

[xs650bk]

I was just gonna post a thread asking for info on this - perfect timing. This has been said several times before but, pamcopete - ur just awesome, i have learnt so much from your posts and articles. da_evil_one - setup looks great, do post a fire up video..

 

[ember]

Thank you, Pete. I am wiring my bike tomorrow, so I am glad you chimed in and to have you here on the forum for all the support on your product.
Very much appreciated.

My one other stupid question for you. I am using Hugh's PMA kit for reference.
Without the regulator hooked up for first fire, how does one correct the juice pulsing from the Alternator? Hypothetically, if I am reading 15+ volts at battery with engine running, what would I do to correct the surge to the battery to remedy the PMA?