stack of black chips

[anysnail]

i can't find the thread that explains what black chips are doing in my oil filter. i know it's on here somewhere. something about cam or tensioner or both, right? i just tightened a horribly loose cam chain tensioner yesterday and rode around all afternoon. seemed to me the clicking came back after 10 miles but it wasn't AS bad as it had been.


stupid black chips...

damn teflon...

 

[jayel]

front cam chain guide failure, teflon is your friend slick lol set the valve tappets now and try it again

 

[Travis]

From the title, I thought you won big at the casino!

 

[anysnail]

jayel, what you are recommending i do is so far beyond my comprehension i barely understand what you are saying.

put it to me simply, am i boned?

 

[Ironsled77]

I believe what what he is talking about is setting your valves. I didn't know how to do it and ibjust followed the owners manual. It was pretty straight forward. But did it backwards and didn't set the chain tensioner. Time to revisit that!

Posted via Mobile

 

[bloodthirstysystem]

cam chain guide is plastic and falls apart. it's in the front of the engine, the bolts that hold it are behind the chrome oil tube that runs vertically. mine were loose when i got it and leaking oil.

re torque the motor (if you want, i would), then tighten the cam chain, then set the valves, then set your timing..

download the manual, throw away your bible and put this in its place
http://www.biker.net/650_service/650service main.html

 

[msmary]

cam chain guide def: little black plastic piece in your motor that your cam chain runs across. www.partforyamaha.com go to oem parts finder give you a better idea of what your looking at. good luck!

 

[hooktool]

Why would setting his valves, timing, etc be helpful for a crapped out guide?

Anysnail, you need to tear your motor down, and do at least a minor rebuild. Cam chain, guides, tensioner-then seals, gaskets, rings and lap the valves since its apart. More if things are in bad shape. It's a VERY common problem.

You can keep running it, but it will just get worse-next you will see shiny stuff in your oil, which is the aluminum that the guide is made of-probably already can see it.

Good luck.

John

 

[anysnail]

thanks john, i couldn't figure out why doing my valves would help either. i've pretty much decided that winter is coming and i was planning a full rebuild then anyways. i knew all those black shards had something to do with the cam chain but i couldn't remember what. i figure i'll just rock the metal on metal until it gets cold and then i'll do the whole damn thing. i mean for reals my bike is older than i am. i was expecting some pretty intense maintenance.

all i wanna know is this; if i don't replace the guide now and put on about 2,000 miles before i do the rebuild will i be doing irreparable damage to any other part of my engine than the chain and guide?

probably a dumb question but i would rather ride than wait for parts in the mail and waste valuable saddle time.

 

[bloodthirstysystem]

Why would setting his valves, timing, etc be helpful for a crapped out guide?

i suggested torquing the motor which will throw everything off. valves are easy to adjust. at least with points, if you tighten the chain it will probably advance your timing a bit. not sure how other ignition systems would be affected

 

[gggGary]

If you do decide to keep running it at least make sure you have a functioning pick up screen in the sump. (not likely if you haven't looked) no sense running all that fod through the oil pump.

 

[grizld1]

Bloodthirsty, you got that backward. As the tensioner takes up slack in the chain (due to stretch or lowering the deck) it pulls the camshaft against the direction of rotation, retarding ignition and valve events. That's the case for all camshaft-driven ignitions.

anysnail, when cam chain tension is too loose, lash in the front run of the chain can flake plastic off the damper. Run with tension set correctly, then check the screen for debris at the next oil change. You may still see a little plastic working through from previous damage; don't be too concerned unless you start seeing aluminum. The clicking you hear could be caused by loose valve adjustment, which is why jayel gave you the very good advice to check it.

 

[hooktool]

If you see plastic, nothings going to fix it. It's deteriorated over 30 years. Circulating that crap through your motor may make what is not a big deal into one.

I would never run it. It's your motor, though.

John

 

[anysnail]

now i get it. i actually just changed the filters on the bottom end that's how i discovered the black chips. sadly the PO had done little in the way of maintenance so i'm stuck doing it all. that's okay though i like working on her. i think i'm gonna cruise around this holiday weekend and then check my oil filter. if there is aluminum showing then i guess i'm just gonna have to tear it down.

that's not something i wanted to do in the middle of the summer but it is what it is.

 

[jayel]

a loose chain will cause flaking of the guide but may not be fatal to the guide they are fairly thick, that means a one time finding of the chips may not mean you HAVE to do the teardown, setting the valves is just to eliminate that as a noise source since PO didn't set the cam chain tension I doubt he set the valves either, ignition timing will be effected by cam chain so that is why you set it first

 

[anysnail]

that's funny jayel. the whole thing is all making sense. my bike stalls at speed at total random and i think it's because of poor timing and the chain was waaaaayyyy out of adjustment and the valves on the left are clicking slightly also it backfires a bit.

funny how engines need periodic attention, eh? i need to order some parts from mikesxs next friday so i can install my new coil and i think i'll check all those parts affected by that stupid loose chain as well as inspection for aluminum chips in the filter. then it's time to fix it right and ride off into the sunset.

 

[inxs]

- dont want to be impertinent but have you checked both filters?
...the sieve fixed to the other side of this sump plate-is often ruptured

...and the filter in your rh casing-finer alu filings , gunk and front guide pieces collect here after stressing the oil pump under it

 

[yamaman]

inxs, love the shot of the filter with the vegemite jar & the German newspaper lol

 

[inxs]

- vegemite is a premium score over here-sometimes you can get the english vegemite but its f#*@ing terrible shit...some mates arrive from sydney wed morning with a case vegemite on fresh brötchen and timtamslams

 

[hooktool]

Every time I go to OZ or NZ, I try to eat Vegemite-I figure that many people can't be wrong. I guess you have to be born to it, it's still pretty nasty shit to me.

That is a great photo, and kind of my point. You guys have done some great posts on improving the strainers, adding filters etc. It makes no sense to circulate that crap through an otherwise good motor. The plastic crumbles because it has degraded, and it won't get better.

John