tight motor after rebuild

[roadstar06]

So, yesterday I finally got around to putting oil in the rebuild, I try to kick it just to get the oil moved around (not to start) and I can stand on lever! I didn't have plugs in-motor has been done now for 2-3 months just sitting in frame while I try and wire it up. I have rags in every open hole to prevent condensation in motor-it finally moved after i got it down half way but is Super tight! New rings -new cam chain-new tranfer shaft gear-new 1 pc. clutch rod-all new seals-old bearings looked good-valves looked good- new valve seals-oiled cylinders when pistons went in, could it be that the cam chain tension is to much? I have it set flush according to book.when kick lever is at half I can get it to go but it seems really tight. I posted this question on the fb page as well and someone said the clutch nut is too tight? I don't see how that would be a factor when it's in neutral or does it? pretty sure i installed it correctly.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Fully loosen up the camshaft chain tensioner and see if that helps. The new chains are very tight.

 

[roadstar06]

Fully loosen up the camshaft chain tensioner and see if that helps. The new chains are very tight.

ok, if it helps do i keep it like that or put it back flush before i;m ready to start(which i;m not) frown

 

[retiredgentleman]

ok, if it helps do i keep it like that or put it back flush before i;m ready to start(which i;m not) frown

When you are ready to start the engine, I would just leave the adjuster backed off for minimum tension. Some extra slack and mechanical noise is OK for the initial start up. Running the engine for a while (use a fan blowing air on the engine if running very long) should start to lengthen the chain, at which time you would tighten the adjuster as needed.
With my bike I have a simple way to adjust my camchain tensioner. With the engine hot, I tighten the adjuster until there is no motion of the pin, and then I back off the adjuster nut by 2 flats. I then see the pin moving back and forth a small amount. That's it.

For comparison, you could measure the amount of torque it takes to rotate your engine. On my engine, with spark plugs removed, 2 degrees C, and a cold engine, it takes 75 in/lbs or 6.25 ft/lbs to rotate my engine using the nut on the alternator rotor.

 

[roadstar06]

When you are ready to start the engine, I would just leave the adjuster backed off for minimum tension. Some extra slack and mechanical noise is OK for the initial start up. Running the engine for a while (use a fan blowing air on the engine if running very long) should start to lengthen the chain, at which time you would tighten the adjuster as needed.
With my bike I have a simple way to adjust my camchain tensioner. With the engine hot, I tighten the adjuster until there is no motion of the pin, and then I back off the adjuster nut by 2 flats. I then see the pin moving back and forth a small amount. That's it.

For comparison, you could measure the amount of torque it takes to rotate your engine. On my engine, with spark plugs removed, 2 degrees C, and a cold engine, it takes 75 in/lbs or 6.25 ft/lbs to rotate my engine using the nut on the alternator rotor.

so I did what you suggested yesterday with little to no effect, as I ponder upon this problem?? I"m thinking the clutch needs to be open(plates/disc) to release tension. not sure if this is even a factor but like a car you depress clutch to start in neutral. does thst make any sense?

 

[gggGary]

Were the rings end gapped? If the stock stator is installed check that isn't cocked a bit, making it rub on the rotor, there is a small locating pin at 7 o:clock

 

[retiredgentleman]

Whether the clutch is engaged or disengaged would make very little difference.

There is a thread called "New Engine Too Tight" by Scooterbrain. He pondered if his rings were causing problems but it turned out to be the front camchain guide was not installed in the correct location, due to bad parts from (you guessed it!) ...............Mikesxs!
On Dec 11/16, he posted this quote:
"Mystery Solved !
Ok ,so here was the problem with the cam chain being too tight.
Defective parts and my failure to pay attention. I bought from Mikes XS a full set of Chrome upper end bolts and the two that screw into the front of the Cylinder bank, for the front tensioner bolts to pass through, were 1/8 inch longer that the original ones. This moved the front guide inwards towards the chain. Used the old ones. Issue corrected."

Are you sure your front camchain guide is installed correctly with the proper OEM nuts?

 

[roadstar06]

Were the rings end gapped? If the stock stator is installed check that isn't cocked a bit, making it rub on the rotor, there is a small locating pin at 7 o:clock

pretty sure I checked end gaps-using hhb pma system

 

[roadstar06]

Whether the clutch is engaged or disengaged would make very little difference.

There is a thread called "New Engine Too Tight" by Scooterbrain. He pondered if his rings were causing problems but it turned out to be the front camchain guide was not installed in the correct location, due to bad parts from (you guessed it!) ...............Mikesxs!
On Dec 11/16, he posted this quote:
"Mystery Solved !
Ok ,so here was the problem with the cam chain being too tight.
Defective parts and my failure to pay attention. I bought from Mikes XS a full set of Chrome upper end bolts and the two that screw into the front of the Cylinder bank, for the front tensioner bolts to pass through, were 1/8 inch longer that the original ones. This moved the front guide inwards towards the chain. Used the old ones. Issue corrected."

Are you sure your front camchain guide is installed correctly with the proper OEM nuts?

yes I used the original bolts and guide but when putting it back together i did put it in upside down but caught my mistake in time and flipped it back. I am not a mechanic but when building the motor I went very slow and researched every move so I was sure everything was correct, not saying I didn't make any mistakes but to the best of my knowledge it was put back together correctly. I have not checked valve clearance yet, would that be a suspect?

 

[retiredgentleman]

For simply rotating the engine, the valve clearance should not matter very much, but as a test, you could back off on all of the valve adjusters, to a very large gap, if you wish to remove that possibility.
If you have a torque wrench, you could measure the torque required to rotate the engine, and compare to the numbers that I gave you.

 

[roadstar06]

more info- left side cover not on bike and no clutch cable installed- valve clearance not checked- may have over tightened clutch nut (not sure)??is the clutch a factor in the starting process at all? I wish the right side cover was see-thru..lol or could x-ray video to see whats happening.

 

[roadstar06]

For simply rotating the engine, the valve clearance should not matter very much, but as a test, you could back off on all of the valve adjusters, to a very large gap, if you wish to remove that possibility.
If you have a torque wrench, you could measure the torque required to rotate the engine, and compare to the numbers that I gave you.

Thanks I will try the torque wrench method later today,I also tried backing off cam chain tension to no avail- I got a honey-do list already.lol

 

[retiredgentleman]

more info- left side cover not on bike and no clutch cable installed- valve clearance not checked- may have over tightened clutch nut (not sure)??is the clutch a factor in the starting process at all? I wish the right side cover was see-thru..lol or could x-ray video to see whats happening.

No need for the left cover to be installed at this time. The clutch is engaged which is fine.
By clutch nut, do you mean the clutch centre nut, under the right cover? You should have torqued it at 54 to 58 ft/lbs.
The clutch should not be a problem, unless you assembled it wrong.

 

[roadstar06]

No need for the left cover to be installed at this time. The clutch is engaged which is fine.
By clutch nut, do you mean the clutch centre nut, under the right cover? You should have torqued it at 54 to 58 ft/lbs.
The clutch should not be a problem, unless you assembled it wrong.

yes the center nut-I want to say yes that it was torqed correctly but not 100% positive- I am sure all parts for clutch basket assembled correct.