when you sell a chopper or bobber.... liability concerns

[emzdogz]

When you write the bill of sale do you include special wording to the effect of "at your own risk"?

I had my hardtail and neck rake professionally done - but I can't swear up and down it's perfect. Other stuff could break, too. Not just on my bike - others' too.

How about just having them sign off saying they understand it is a "project bike that could require further work", even if it is a registered rider, with a tag, etc ? Would that be enough to "CYA" legally?

Just wondering if this is something any of you who have sold a chopper have given any thought?

My goal is to have the prospective buyer understand that original Yokohama quality control was not in force throughout the customization process, and that at any given moment, really and truly, something could go wrong. And really that's true with any old bike, chopper, bobber, cafe, even stock - there could be a loose bolt or incorrectly installed this or that, or whatever.

So, do you all add any special language or make the buyer sign off on anything to cover yourself liability-wise when selling a chopper?

thx

 

[Paulrxs650]

I suppose, theoretically you would have the vehicle inspected again. In the UK, when I have built cars and bikes from scratch, the vehicle has to pass an IVA test which inlolves a man in a white coat going over the vehicle, ensuring it is fit for its purpose and road use.
Without getting too far into the legalities, I have always ensured that a buyer understands that it is "sold as seen, with no warranty given or implied"
Looking at it from the other side, if said buyer, rides the bike away and next day does a cart wheel down the road because something broke, it would be incredibly difficult to prove blame on your part. After that it would get legally, messy.

 

[emzdogz]

In Florida, at this time, we have no vehicle inspections at all. Thanks for your response.

Really, I want no one to get hurt. But also, I don't want to get in trouble.

(the other thing is I'm not even selling my bike at this point, but I was just wondering about this)

 

[jetmechmarty]

Em,

I believe "as is" is sufficient. Throwing that other language in there probably doesn't hurt. This is probably not a good place to ask for legal advice. The lawyer that I live with just gave me that warning. As I have said before, do not take legal advice from people who are not lawyers. That includes me!

 

[emzdogz]

Hey there, Marty. ok, good advice.
take care

 

[jd750ace]

As is, with no fitness for a particular purpose stated or implied. That's what I done with my rolled blazer, since it was never offically declared salvage. Don't do J-turns in your pasture, especially in fire ant country. That's all I'm saying.

$0.02

 

[mrtwowheel]

I don't see a reason to start a new thread for this since the subject is liability as a result of modifications. How many people answer the question truthfully that is asked by your insurance agent, "Has this vehicle been modified in any way?". After lying to the insurance agent what are the consequences if you are found liable for damage or injury?

Scott

Never admit fault, even if you believe it was your fault.

 

[emzdogz]

what if you live in a state where no insurance is required?

Scott, the thread was intended to explore the possible "consequences".

And by the way, who the hell are you to decide what the basis is for a discussion's existence or not? If Travis or another admin wishes to remove it, then so be it. You say a "new" thread? are there "old" threads on this?

I can understand if it's simply something most people sweep under the rug, but I think it might help someone out down the road if maybe the corner of the rug is lifted briefly, to see what's under there.

I'm curious if anyone on here has personal experience of some liability incurred from a modified bike being sold and then the buyer doing what IS very prevalent here in the Sunshine State, and that is suing people all over the place.

 

[emzdogz]

oh wait! I get it! because by posting in this thread lots of people here could incriminate themselves?

 

[jetmechmarty]

Em,

The Sunshine State is one of very few places that don't require insurance. It's the only one I know of. Just make sure you have it if you cross into Georgia.

If you sell your bike "as is" on a Bill of Sale, I believe someone would have to prove negligence on your part if the machine failed and someone was hurt. I think I'd word my BOS as jd750ace suggested. Just the same, I'm sure it's no fun to be sued. I think it might be different if you were a business. Once again, I'm not a lawyer and it's been a couple of days since I slept in the Holiday Inn.

 

[jd750ace]

I don't see a reason to start a new thread for this since the subject is liability as a result of modifications. How many people answer the question truthfully that is asked by your insurance agent, "Has this vehicle been modified in any way?". After lying to the insurance agent what are the consequences if you are found liable for damage or injury?

Scott

Never admit fault, even if you believe it was your fault.

Scott did not see the point in starting another thread to diversify the question.

Once you sell the vehicle "as is" the burden for assuring it is roadworthy lies with the new owner. If you want to lie to your insurance company about the state of the insured property, go ahead, but shelling out for insuranace sucks enough without increasing in any way the opportunity for a claim to be denied. Then the lawyers get everybody's money, and you get shit.

 

[mrtwowheel]

what if you live in a state where no insurance is required?

Scott, the thread was intended to explore the possible "consequences".

And by the way, who the hell are you to decide what the basis is for a discussion's existence or not? If Travis or another admin wishes to remove it, then so be it. You say a "new" thread? are there "old" threads on this?

I can understand if it's simply something most people sweep under the rug, but I think it might help someone out down the road if maybe the corner of the rug is lifted briefly, to see what's under there.

I'm curious if anyone on here has personal experience of some liability incurred from a modified bike being sold and then the buyer doing what IS very prevalent here in the Sunshine State, and that is suing people all over the place.

I meant that I thought that my question was related to the subject in this thread and that I shouldn't have to start another thread to bring this up.

I always answer the question from my insurance agent that no modifications were made. What does this question mean anyways? Different size tires, mirrors, saddlebags, bearings, brake linings and other various things are also "modifications". I don't think I would even confess to having a trike, sidecar or even a hardtail when this question is asked.

Scott

 

[tonyc]

Sell it as a project. Discribe it as a running project. This way the new oner can determine if he or she wants to immediately put it on the road. Tony C

 

[jd750ace]

Try not telling your insurance company that you had a pool built, and then a neighbor's kid drowns in it.
Wonder how that works out?
Trampolines, fireplaces, closing a garage into a living space, adding any of those "make your own electricity" gadgets, and a couple of others are game changers in your risk assessment, and if one is added without notification to your insurance company, and is implicated or directly responsible for a loss or injury claim, you're sunk, or at least I would be. Read your policies and policy riders folks.

Another 2 pennies.

 

[angus67]

washington state requires no mc insurance.
Ive always added "as is" on any bos i sign.

 

[sonicarb13]

I understand your want to try your best to cover your butt, I lived in the sue happy state of Florida myself for a while. I have sold a few chops and projects as well. I refused to sell one such "project" bike to a young kid that had no idea what he was buying. Concience wouldn't let me. "As is" is usually sufficient in my book but read the buyer a bit, our type is usually easy to pick out. Liability paperwork I think would be good but doesn't stop them from trying to sue and racking up lawyer fees.

 

[Marvelicious]

I intend to do the only logical thing I can think of: pretend I never looked at this thread, give it no further thought because it would spoil my fun, and strangle the first person to sue me with an extension cord. That's reasonable, right?

J/K... mostly...

 

[emzdogz]

sounds like the "as-is" verbiage is the preferred. You guys are a trip.

 

[weekendrider]

Maybe instead of the seller having to assert the item is "as is" a buyer statement would be better coverage down the line? Something that says I am purchasing this _______ "as is" and accept full financial and physical responsiblity. Then have them sign, date , etc. You keep it in case they need reminded down the road. Of course in Judge Joes court " I didn't mean it when I signed it" seems to be a defense!!!