xs timing question (with a pamco)..

purerockfury71

purerockfury71
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trying to set the timing on my 77 xs650 with a pamco ignition but it seems like the mark on the rotor jumps around a little bit and its hard to line up with the "f" marks on the stator..is this "normal" ? or should it just be a steady line to be lined up with the stator marks... i lined them up the best i could and when i get on the throttle it doesn't go past the full advance mark it seems to run ok tho does need the carbs adjusted & probably jetted (straight pipes & pod filters) hopefully this all makes sense...
any help would be greatly appreciated !
 
thx for the reply! i did try that still the same thing..so it should be a steady mark? it moves back and forth maybe a 16th or so each way which makes it hard to line up...
 
I just installed a Pamco ignition in my 79 as well and haven't yet timed it...(still waiting on some parts before she runs). I know the pamco has only three wires but what should I check for so i don't screw anything up before I start it? (I'm pretty new to this)

Sorry about the :hijack:
 
How much end play (in-out, not side to side) do you have on the advance rod? If it's excessive, that can cause the timing marks to jump around like that at idle.
 
How much end play (in-out, not side to side) do you have on the advance rod? If it's excessive, that can cause the timing marks to jump around like that at idle.

Actually not sure...I know there is some because I did notice it...how would I go about fixing that if its the problem and how much if any should it have? Or should it not have any...the advance rod is where the pamco rotor attaches to correct?

Thx again!
 
hey 5twins how much side to side play should there be? i just installed a pamco and need to do the timing like rockfury.
 
^^^ beat me to it
How much end play (in-out, not side to side) do you have on the advance rod? If it's excessive, that can cause the timing marks to jump around like that at idle.

i'm running into the same problem with my timing mark dancing around on me at idle. dances around less with the light hooked to the left plug wire compared to the right.

is .015" in-and-out play of the advance rod considered excessive?
 
pa23driver;

0.015" end play will be just fine.

I found mine to be at 0.031". I thought that was excessive, so I made up a shim of 0.015". That left me at 0.016". My Pamco works great.

I don't think a small amount of dancing around is a concern.
 

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I think I only had about .015" end play to begin with but I still thought that was too much. You could see the rod moving in and out if you pulled and pushed on it. I shimmed it way down to like .005". Basically, I added shims until the rod bound up when tightened down. Then I just removed a couple so it had enough freeplay to operate. Of course it's a metric diameter and they do sell metric shims but only in 50 packs, way more than you need. Luckily, the rod is very near 1/2" so 1/2" American shims work fine. You can get 10 packs from McMaster Carr for about $4 each. Get some .002" (#3088A162) and .006" (#3088A252) and you can shim from .002" on up in .002" increments.

I placed mine on the Pamco side, well actually I did this while I still had points. I never really removed the points cam nor do I remove the Pamco rotor. I do remove the disc on the advance side from time to time for servicing the unit so that's why I shimmed on the other side. My timing marks were jumping around at idle with the points. The shims really helped and I think they smoothed the advance action as well. The bike just seemed to run a bit better and smoother after the shimming. Not a bad little mod for $8.
 
thx alot gentleman & 5twins! i'll check it out after work today. i did notice it moving in and out like you 5twins...hope thats it, gotta love an easy fix!
 
purerockyfury71,

A. The end play on a stock points advance setup is .5mm. The end play for a MikesXS advance rod is 1mm. The stock end play is OK and should not produce a noticeable timing jitter. The end play on Mikes advance rod might show some jitter if you look closely. You could install a .5mm washer type shim in the MikesXS setup, but I would not advise shimming the stock rod as some end play is needed for thermal expansion of the rod.

B. If you are going to install a .5mm shim in a MikesXS rod, then install it on the advance side.

C. In both cases, the amount of timing jitter will not affect the operation of the engine.

D. Ensure that the PAMCO rotor is fully seated on the end of the advance rod. The best way to check for this is to remove the rod and do a test fit. Do the same for the advance slotted disk.

1. You should also adjust your timing chain tension. A loose timing chain will cause timing jitter, as will a worn out timing chain.
2. Check the tension on the return springs. The advance should return so the advance weight arms are up against the slotted disk.

atu22.jpg


Notice that you can see some tension in the springs (spaces between coils)

3. You must have either resistor caps or resistor plugs for proper operation of the timing light.
4. The idle must be steady.
5. Engine must be warmed up.
6. Excessive idle speed (>1200 RPM) will cause the advance weights to be right at the point where they start to advance, causing timing "jitter", so perhaps a little work on the carbs for a steady idle at 1200 RPM will help.
7. Here is a video of the correct "snap back" action of the advance.


You must have this crisp snap back action for proper timing.

Thanks 5twins and RG for your help. I installed this review in the web site as the quesiton does come up from time to time.
 
thx pete, the pamco is great btw super easy to install. i did find a thread that was similar to the problem i'm having so i was gonna go through your checklist after work

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1680

1. Could be a timing light issue. Try a different timing light.
2. One of the plug wires is not making contact in the coil tower or the plug cap. Measure the resistance from one cap to the other to ensure you have continuity through the coil.
3. Low battery voltage to the timing light. Charge battery
4. Loose springs on the advance mechanism. Adjust.
5. No resistor caps or resistor plugs.
6. Loose timing chain. Adjust chain tension.
7. Loose alternator rotor. Tighten the rotor nut.
8. Loose spanner nut holding the advance plate to the cam. Tighten.
9. Weak magnet in the PAMCO rotor. Aim the timing light at the rotor and see if it is standing still or is it jumping back and forth. If it's jumping around, PM your address for a new one.

i know its not # 3, brand new battery and its charging properly

maybe a dumb question but what are the resistor caps and resistor plugs? where are they located..if you don't mind, just figured asking might be easier than searching through the Manuel...

thx again all this help is greatly appreciated!
shawn
 
pure....,

The resistor caps are what connects the plug wire to the spark plug. Resistor plugs are spark plugs that have built in resistance, like a NGK BPR7ES instead of a BP7ES.
 
ok...i'll check the plugs when i get home i bought the kit with the coil, plug ends,ect... Part #14-0901 , so i should be running the BPR7ES? if their not already...
 
pure.....,

That kit comes with resistor caps (5K) so you should just run the stock plugs, BP7ES with that coil. You need resistor plugs OR caps, not both.
 
thx pete! that did the trick! the springs were weak...i have a couple seized up engines so i robbed a set off of one that were in better condition just to see if that was it, just ordered a new set from mikes along with some jets

thx to gentleman & 5twins as well!
 
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