Early clutch question

Not a problem, Bob. Glad to have my name on a small part of this lovely refurb!

5twins said:
I've already sourced the button head Allens and thin nuts used to replace the factory rivets that hold the hub together. But all that allows me to do is take apart 2 and make up one good one by combining the parts.
Click to expand...

I left myself two assemblies to do exactly this.

5twins, M8 x 1.25 x 20?
 
TwoManyXS1Bs said:
Hard to tell from the pics, but I don't see any wear notches on the hub and basket. Are they really that clean?
Click to expand...

Yes everything is in really good shape. Very minimal marks , not really notches, and the steel plates look really flat, no warping with only some light surface rust.

I’m really happy with this assembly.
 
Humm, looks like I got the old kind. Put a tad of liquid wrench on the springs under screw caps and they came off second pop...were not on too tight Phillips heads looked unmolested until I put a little hammer to em. 1st disc is 3.5ish mm thin plates are rust/ crusty from sitting. Question: IF I decide to leave this all in here after looking it all over, can I just clean the thin plates and is that small hole on the outer plate of the 447 type an oil access hole or just some index thing? Can I switch to the 7 Kevlar friction plates...a la Mike's with this set up not buying an old 447 basket?
 

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If anyone is interested in the clutch parts out of the 1972 in that picture to the left let me know and I could dig them out and get a look at them. All I as is to get paid for shipping and maybe a couple dollars to get me gas to the post office and the tape to seal the package.
 
yamahama said:
Humm, looks like I got the old kind...

... Question: IF I decide to leave this all in here after looking it all over, can I just clean the thin plates and is that small hole on the outer plate of the 447 type an oil access hole or just some index thing? Can I switch to the 7 Kevlar friction plates...a la Mike's with this set up not buying an old 447 basket?
Click to expand...

You'll find info on the index hole in these:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-clutch.143/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/little-hole-in-clutch-pressure-plate.7366/

And, you'll need the 6 thinner steels to go with the 7 thinner fibers.
Do a forum search on "stackup thickness"...
 
5twins said:
Well, that sounds good. At the very least, try to get an inner hub, pressure plate, and both kinds of clutch plates (steel and fiber). Your fiber plates are 3.5mm thick. All the later ones are 3mm thick. Your steel plates are 1.6mm thick. All the later ones are 1.4mm thick ..... except that bottom damper steel plate in the '80 and newer assemblies. That bottom steel is a 1.6mm thick plate just like all your steels.
Click to expand...
Hi 5twins
5twins said:
Well, that sounds good. At the very least, try to get an inner hub, pressure plate, and both kinds of clutch plates (steel and fiber). Your fiber plates are 3.5mm thick. All the later ones are 3mm thick. Your steel plates are 1.6mm thick. All the later ones are 1.4mm thick ..... except that bottom damper steel plate in the '80 and newer assemblies. That bottom steel is a 1.6mm thick plate just like all your steels.
Click to expand...
Hi 5twins
Still Relevant
I just bought a set of 7 kevlar clutch fibers from barnette for my 77/78 and every fiber thickness was 2.5mm. where are you buying fibers at 3.5mm? Damn according to all the specs and talk about fiber thicknesses I just purchased a set of useless fibers. According to the required thicknesses I'd need to add another 7mm to the basket, which is basically 3 fibers. My current fibers are 3mm but I thought as I had the motor all apart I'd just replace them when in fact they are closer to spec than the new ones.
 
Paj said:
Hi 5twins
Hi 5twins
Still Relevant
I just bought a set of 7 kevlar clutch fibers from barnette for my 77/78 and every fiber thickness was 2.5mm. where are you buying fibers at 3.5mm? Damn according to all the specs and talk about fiber thicknesses I just purchased a set of useless fibers. According to the required thicknesses I'd need to add another 7mm to the basket, which is basically 3 fibers. My current fibers are 3mm but I thought as I had the motor all apart I'd just replace them when in fact they are closer to spec than the new ones.
Click to expand...
Well 2 fibers and 2 steel I should say. Is that even possible ? And how would that even function?
 
I never bought any 3.5mm fiber plates, never needed any as all my clutches are the later type that use 3mm fiber plates. If you do the math, I think one more 2.5mm fiber and one more 1.4mm steel will get you very close to what you need. What you have stock is 7 fibers @3mm (21mm) + 6 steels @1.4mm (8.4mm) and that gives you a total "stack" height of 29.4mm. 8 fibers @2.5mm (20mm) + 7 steels @1.4mm (9.8mm) would give you a "stack" height of 29.8mm.

But I guess the big question is will those kevlar plates swell much once they're soaked in oil? Were they sold to you as XS650 replacement plates?
 
I noticed on the last set I bought all the fibers were under 3mm. I think they were around 2.7ish and I had no issues. It was a 7 plate comversion so I had to swap out the steels as well.
 
5twins said:
I never bought any 3.5mm fiber plates, never needed any as all my clutches are the later type that use 3mm fiber plates. If you do the math, I think one more 2.5mm fiber and one more 1.4mm steel will get you very close to what you need. What you have stock is 7 fibers @3mm (21mm) + 6 steels @1.4mm (8.4mm) and that gives you a total "stack" height of 29.4mm. 8 fibers @2.5mm (20mm) + 7 steels @1.4mm (9.8mm) would give you a "stack" height of 29.8mm.

But I guess the big question is will those kevlar plates swell much once they're soaked in oil? Were they sold to you as XS650 replacement plates?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your input.
Thank you also for doing the math. Is there a max stack height? The barnette fibers I purchased from fortnine here in Canada as fitment parts for the xs650, though I'm sure other makes and models apply to the same fibers. I can contact barnette and ask some of the questions you've raised here. When I purchased the fibers I could have purchased as many as I wanted. Each sold separately. Maybe this was my mistake. I went with barnette because I replaced the set in my triumph some years back but purchased as a set not individually. The other thing is I never saw the clutch steels on there but mine were still good as I could see all the dimples on each steel and not warped. I'll have to revisit fortnine see what they have as a complete kit maybe. If I can just add the one extra fiber and steel I'd much rather do that as complete kits are about $180 Canadian.
I wanted to try the kevlar as I know it's tough and newer tech to the original cork.
I'll let you know what I find.
 

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