'83 XS650 Bobber: Rat's nest

[retroLS1]

What does the stator look like on a regular points ignition? Unfortunately my Google-fu is not strong and I get very mixed results.

It looks like I will still be able to use the coil I have coming (assuming the terminals don't break off) and use it with a Pamco setup. I have new high tension plug wires and caps on the way also so I am assuming I would just need the basic Pamco setup to get up and running? It also looks like I have the advance rod assembly already so that saves a few bucks.

 

[retroLS1]

Would this bike even be able to run with the way it's set up right now? I'm not sure if the points ignition plays nicely with the TCI ignition box or how that would even work in general. Again, I am still planning on ripping it out in favor of a Pamco but curiosity is killing me why the old owner tried to do this.

 

[lowliferat]

It's pretty amazing what you will find in these bikes from the POs. if you need a spare dual wire coil I have a few laying around if the one from mikes breaks. If your not using the points and coils for this build and don't need them. Let me know. I'm building a points motor and need some parts for that build. BTW I went with HHB PMA and a pamco with my first build and it was easily one of the best mods I did.

 

[retroLS1]

It's pretty amazing what you will find in these bikes from the POs. if you need a spare dual wire coil I have a few laying around if the one from mikes breaks. If your not using the points and coils for this build and don't need them. Let me know. I'm building a points motor and need some parts for that build. BTW I went with HHB PMA and a pamco with my first build and it was easily one of the best mods I did.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Hopefully this one doesn't break when I first look at it. Once I pull the points and coils off this bike I'll let you know, you can have 'em.

Been trying to figure out exactly what I'll need for a Pamco setup assuming my new dual wire coil works as it should. I will have the high output dual wire coil, high tension plugs/caps and correct plugs. Since I have a points setup apparently, I have the advance rod already in there (instead of having to buy one if I still had the TCI ignition). It looks like I just need to get the basic Pamco setup - could someone please confirm this? I could also add the E-Advancer to it as well I suppose, but I don't know a whole lot about that.

 

[Firerunner]

You sir, appear to have a very rare "points-tci" bike. You seem to have all the components for both set ups. I imagine the po either upgraded to tci and didn't remove the points parts, or retrofitted points on a tci bike. The question, then, is which one is wired up! That could make all the difference in proper coil selection. I just installed a Pamco on my TCI bike. Install is painless. You have the mechanical advance parts already, so if you are pinching pennies, you can get the Pamco without electronic advance.

Finding things like this always makes me worry about other modifications... Like brakes and frame welds. Look the bike over well!

 

[retroLS1]

Yes, absolutely. Going to go through this with a fine tooth comb for sure. Luckily, I know the frame work was done at a good reputable shop in ME. Everything else? Well, I am just cracking open Pandora's box now.

Since I have an '83, it should have had the TCI stock. The PO must have gone to points for some reason and just never finished it. When running a Pamco (non-TCI version) is the Ignition Unit box even needed? It was mounted to the back of my battery box but if I could leave it off that would be great.

 

[Firerunner]

If you are going Pamco, you can completely lose the tci box, and related wiring mess. Pull your stator side cover and make sure you are only removing the pickup wires (going to the little black device at 2 o'clock on the stator) and not the five or so wires that go between the stator and the reg/rec.

 

[retroLS1]

If you are going Pamco, you can completely lose the tci box, and related wiring mess. Pull your stator side cover and make sure you are only removing the pickup wires (going to the little black device at 2 o'clock on the stator) and not the five or so wires that go between the stator and the reg/rec.

Awesome - glad to hear I can lose that mess. You mean these wires here?



If so, can that black device be removed from the stator or will that screw things up? Down the road I will eventually go to a HHB PMA but I just want to get this running well right now.

 

[5twins]

That "black device" is the pick-up so yes, you can remove it and it's associated wires (which you circled).

Back in the "who knows what this lame-brained P.O. did" department, you may want to check the cam to be sure he put the bushings in for the advance rod to turn in. Later cams didn't come with the bushings because there was no advance rod there to need them. Honestly, I don't see how the guy could have installed the advance rod without the bushings. It would be such a sloppy, loose fit in the cam that it probably wouldn't even function. But hey, look what you've found so far, lol.

 

[retroLS1]

That "black device" is the pick-up so yes, you can remove it and it's associated wires (which you circled).

Back in the "who knows what this lame-brained P.O. did" department, you may want to check the cam to be sure he put the bushings in for the advance rod to turn in. Later cams didn't come with the bushings because there was no advance rod there to need them. Honestly, I don't see how the guy could have installed the advance rod without the bushings. It would be such a sloppy, loose fit in the cam that it probably wouldn't even function. But hey, look what you've found so far, lol.

True - good call. I will pop the advance unit off and hopefully see that there is a bushing in there. It seemed nice and snug, but like you said - who knows. I could find a Snickers bar in there for all I know (bonus!)

 

[5twins]

I was going to say you needn't remove the unit to check this but in your case, you probably should. There's a small hole in the cam for a locating pin and a slot on the back of the advance unit to fit on it. The advance unit must be aligned properly and installed onto this pin or the timing will be off.

 

[retroLS1]

Yep and it's also a good time to check and make sure that locating pin is actually there, otherwise when I do finally get to start this franken-bike the timing won't be all over the place.

 

[Red Light Bandit]

sorry retroLS1 For hijacking your thread. Lowliferat, I'm looking for a dual wire coil. I bought my '83 without one from the previous owner. And apparently they are rarer than hens teeth around here! If retroLS1 isn't interested in one, I would be. Thanks for all the help. I was also wondering if the bike has to be running for the headlight to work. Newbe here and I just picked up my bike a few days ago.. Lol. Thanks again guys. End of hijack.

 

[retroLS1]

Current state of affairs:



Well actually, there is a lot less than that actually there now. Pic was taken before I was done. Got the ignition unit box removed along with all the wiring. Took the battery box off, starter solenoid and associated wiring. Had to pop the rear brake light switch off (was mounted to a tab on the battery box). Took off the side engine cover on the left to get to the alternator so I could get the black pick-up off there. That's about where I wrapped up.

I'm very happy to get rid of the TCI unit as that's a lot of extra wires that I don't need anymore. I didn't get to pop the advance unit off to check for a bushing but I did give it a good wiggle and it was solid. I still do plan on removing it to double-check.

The thought of rewiring this bike was pretty intimidating since I have never done it before, but after getting in there tonight and seeing what's what, I am feeling a lot better about it. I am planning on using one of the simplified wiring diagrams I found in the Tech section, only adding turn signals as they are required in MA. I did a quick search but haven't found it (yet) - what gauge wiring should I run for the wiring?

 

[retroLS1]

Little update. Shipment came on Tuesday with some new parts. I got:

- High output ignition coil (Mikes XS #17-6803)
- 7mm high tension plug wires
- NGK resistor plug caps
- Gloss black drag bars (28" - Dime City Cycles)
- Biltwell "Kung Fu" grips, natural rubber (DCC)
- Satin black throttle assembly (DCC)

Got the bars on and they look great. Just what I was looking for. Got the throttle and grips on and they are really comfortable and I like the look a lot. Throttle cable should be an OK length.

First issue I ran into - brake line/master cylinder. The original master cylinder is angled to fit on the high rise factory bars, so when I put them on my drag bars the cylinder is/was tilted and goofy looking. Probably wouldn't work for bleeding the brakes either. The brake line seems a bit long also. I measured and I could probably go with something around 28" or so. Unfortunately Mike's XS only has 17", 20", 24.5" and then jumps to 41" for braided lines. Might have to go custom.

Next issue is the clutch cable. It is way too long now. Routes way out in front by the headlight and then swoops around to connect to the motor. Will have to look into shortening that or getting a new cable. Question on the clutch line where it attaches to the side cover - is there supposed to be any wiggle/play where it routes into the cover? Mine seems to wiggle around and it just seems like it should be firmly in place but maybe not.

So anyways, I bit the bullet and ordered some more parts this morning (don't let my wife read this!) since today is payday and could spare a few extra bucks. Just got on order:

- Pamco basic ignition kit (14-0900)
- Slim front master cylinder assembly (08-4003)
- Black clutch lever bracket (09-6583)
- Black clutch lever (08-0028)

Since I am redoing my wiring, I figured I might as well get the Pamco in there instead of messing with it later.

Sorry for the long post but couple more questions. I was thinking about eliminating my key in favor for a toggle switch. I have read some on it and just wanted a little clarification. I am thinking of using a SPDT toggle switch like this one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062532

I was wondering if it could be wired so the middle position is "OFF", one position is "ACC" (lights, etc. but no coil) and the other position be "ON/RUN" where everything has juice. Is that possible with a switch like that? Right now I do not have a kill switch on the bike and plan on adding one, just have to figure out mounting one (physically and in terms of wiring)

 

[retroLS1]

Anybody have any input on the toggle switch idea? I was down messing with the bike again tonight and looking over the wiring. Right now there is a fake oil can under the seat that is empty. I would like to move some stuff in there if possible. Even though I have an '83 frame, the bracket for my coil must have been cut off and swapped for the older style bracket for 2 coils because the coil I got is supposed to mount to the factory bracket but it definitely will not. It got me thinking about moving the coil to the fake oil can. I got new plug wires (20"~) and I mocked up different positions and it looks like it could work. I also wanted to mount the toggle ignition switch on the side of the can (or somewhere on it.)

 

[Ghetto]

Some heritage carbs came black from the factory. I think. LOL. I have a set of 83 carbs that were black as well.

 

[retroLS1]

Ah. could be. They have not aged well in either case haha

 

[Firerunner]

You are doing things right, don't skimp on switches. Get good, sealed, marine switches that are rated for the amperage you want to run through them. You *can* make any I/O/I switch work as you describe by linking you poles with a proper diode in between. With that said, that presents more things that could go wrong. Have you though of running two switches, a main (powering everything) followed by an ignition switch (simply supplying power to the Pamco / coil? Flipping either off would turn the bike off.

 

[retroLS1]

You are doing things right, don't skimp on switches. Get good, sealed, marine switches that are rated for the amperage you want to run through them. You *can* make any I/O/I switch work as you describe by linking you poles with a proper diode in between. With that said, that presents more things that could go wrong. Have you though of running two switches, a main (powering everything) followed by an ignition switch (simply supplying power to the Pamco / coil? Flipping either off would turn the bike off.

I think the 2 switch idea is probably the way to go. I don't mind having more than one. I picked up one switch at Radio Shack today:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...11493&filterName=Brand&filterValue=RadioShack

Rated at 30A, SPST. Feels very solid. Has 3 terminals - POWER, ACC, GROUND. Going to mount it on my fake oil can I believe.

I am using this wiring diagram. Only thing different will be that I will have to run turn signals, and I do not have a speedo or tach so will not need the meter or neutral lights. I am assuming this goes right in place of the Ignition Switch? If so, it looks like the red wire from the reg/rec goes to the "POWER" terminal, the brown wire coming from the reg/rec & kill switch goes to the "ACC" terminal, and then ground can be run to the battery ground. Does this sound correct?

Also, for the kill switch - it looks like I will put it on the brown wire coming from the coil going to the new ignition toggle switch, along with a 10A fuse. Does that sound kosher? Obviously I am fairly green when it comes to this stuff, just don't want to have to do stuff twice if I don't have to. First time ever doing wiring on a whole bike before.