Clutch help

[NastyBeads]

So I finally got the bike running /idling on its own. I knew I had a problem with the clutch but thought I found the issue. The clutch lever is SUPER hard to pull, and in reading I found that this was kinda common with this bike. I also found that I was missing the ball bearing in the worm gear, replaced it and didn't solve the problem. My issue is that the lever is super hard to pull and doesn't engage the clutch. I figure it's stuck for some reason due to time because I found that issue with other things on the bike. I tried rocking back and forth while in gear to free it up, no joy. I'm going to open up the right side (again) to see if anything is appearant. Any suggestions on what I should be looking for? Could I give a couple blows on the rod with a rubber mallet to try and free it up?

Also, the ball bearings and rod were lubed well and clutch cable is new if that helps.

Thanks in advance.

 

[angus67]

pull in the lever, and with bike in neutral, start kicking. eventually, the clutch plates will separate. That how I start both my 650's. it charges the cylinders for a first kick start, and no clunk when putting into first.

 

[5twins]

Yes, the clutch pull on these is harder than many other bikes, but it shouldn't be super, super hard. I think you may need to oil your new cable. Many new cables come dry or nearly dry. The first new cable I put on mine pulled harder than the old ratty one I was replacing because it was dry. Also make sure your cable routing is as good as it can be, with the least amount of sharp bends and kinks.

 

[NastyBeads]

So I kicked it over a bunch with the clutch pulled in. Feels better, like it is engaging. However, if I pull the clutch in while in gear you can still feel the gears grabbing and won't roll freely. The worm gear adjustment screen is almost backed all the way out to get it to feel better. Gonna read up more on adjusting the clutch and see if that works. If not, is it time for a new clutch? Also lubed and re-run the cable.

Thank you guys already for the responses.

 

[XSLeo]

I have found that with a well lubed cable, worm mechanism and proper adjustment the clutch works very well.
On the cable the repair manual talks about the motor oil with a funnel method. I have found this works best. The cable luber thingies that clamp on the cable and you use a spray lube don't work nearly as well. They don't last long either.
On the worm mechanism take the inner part out of the outer part, watching just how it lines up so you get it back together right, remove the adjuster screw. Clean well. Generously lube all the parts with chassis grease. Reassemble.
The book method of adjustment works well. I do things just a bit differently. Where they say break the nut loose and back out the screw then turn in. At this point I back it out a few turns. Now spin the screw in/out a few times to get a good feel for the resistance of the screw turning. Now screw it in till you just feel resistance. At this point all the free play has been removed from everything from the adjuster screw to the pressure plate. Now you have to add a bit of play. The book calls for turning the screw out 1/4 turn, I think that's a bit much. The lock nut will hold position on the screw. I watch the nut and turn back one flat on the nut. Easy to see. This is a bit less than the 1/4 turn.
At the lever adjuster set to between 1/8 and 1/4 inch free play. Anymore and the clutch drag is a bit excessive.
I've done a few more things to the clutch on my 75. One thing is a swapped out the stock clutch springs for a set of 70 lb. springs. About a 30 or 40% stronger springs.
I can pull the lever fully with just two fingers.
Harder than most new bike clutches, a bit but a lot of new clutches feel like they aren't hooked to anything.
Leo

 

[NastyBeads]

I'll give that a shot Leo. Thank you.

 

[chizler62]

When pulling clutch lever you're actually disengaging the clutch.

Be sure to double check the cables routing. A slight bend could worsen the feel..etc

When inside check the friction plate tab area of the outer basket. Be sure there isn't any notches in it. Same with the steel plates where they contact the inner basket.

Sometimes depending on depth you can file them smooth.

When reassembling be sure to face all the stamped sides of the driven plates in the same direction.

Posted via Mobile

 

[retiredgentleman]

Have you put lots of grease on the worm gear that's on the left side cover? I regrease mine once a year. Also make sure the nylon part of the worm is not cracked.

www.650central.com sells a clutch cable called "E-Z Pull Clutch Cable". Its a heavy duty cable with a nylon lining, and eliminates the bend at the top of the side cover. I've been using it for 5 or 6 years now, and it works very well for me.

 

[FLEA]

could be 2/3 plates are still stuck together,drop oil and seperate the plates,worth a look for the price of some new oil, had same problem and roll started with clutch in and rode 10kls with clutch in without it fully releasing..found 2 plates stuck (rest burnt so replaced the lot)

 

[wherearewe]

Greasing the worm drive makes a massive difference to feel.

 

[angus67]

my technique separates the plates so there is less drag in the trans on startup and take off.

 

[NastyBeads]

Thanks for all the help guys! when I get a chance ill tear into the clutch and see what I can find. By feel, I think the cable is fine and lubed well. Ill also tear apart and re-grease the worm gear. Is the clutch pretty simple? I've never tore into a bike clutch before.

 

[5twins]

I think it's simple but I've been into quite a few. You will need one of those hand held impacts you hit with a hammer as the pressure plate is held on by 6 Phillips screws. You may find the heads buggered up already because the last guy didn't use the proper tool. Later clutches have an alignment hole and dot. The pressure plate needs to be mounted in one certain position. If you have the '72 clutch, it won't have this. The pressure plate can be mounted in any position .....

There are several spacer washers of different sizes and a radial bearing. These need to be assembled in the proper sequence .....

 

[NastyBeads]

5twins, thank you very much for the diagram. That will help alleviate another search/thread!

 

[NastyBeads]

So I took off the cable and re-lubed, took some bend out of the curve, re-adjusted the worm gear and thought I got a much better feel out of the lever. It felt like it was releasing better/had a better lever feel, but still had some drag on the rear wheel with clutch pulled in.

I put the rear end in the air and with the brake held down and thought I would try to jam it in gear and pray I didn't end up in the living room. I shifted into first and the bike immediately died. I thought, screw this, im going to get a rolling start and jam this thing into gear and see where it takes me. I rolled her into the street (that has a gradual decline) and sat for a moment with the bike running, going through all the potential failures about to happen and building muscle memory to find the kill switch.
I pulled in the clutch handle and thought ill just try one more time to put it in first and see what happens.....CLICK! It took a moment to realize I was in first gear and wasn't moving. I was ecstatic!

Now what? Slowly let the clutch out and this baby was on her maiden voyage, 4 laps around the block! I couldn't be happier. I don't know if it was jolting it into gear that finally freed it up, and frankly don't care. Just glad it worked. I cant thank you guys enough for all the helpful responses.

 

[angus67]

Like I said, If you free up the disks before you start it, it wont klunk into gear. Right on. You live to tell the tale.
My maiden voyage was without brakes, got back to the garage, and forgot to put the kick stand down. But I was sooo happy. I went to get off, and both me and my bike dropped to the floor. I rolled on the floor laughing. Wife thought I hurt my self I was laughing so hard!!