Clutch springs and synthetic oil chat

smokenjoep01

smokenjoep01

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I was having some issues with my clutch not engaging smoothly lately. It seemed to get better when it was hot.
I drained the oil and changed my spin on oil filter. Removed the engine / clutch cover. Removed my clutch plates for inspection. The plates looked great. What I did find was the "paths" the clutch tabs/fingers/slpine(whatever you calll them)slide in were getting grooved up. I covered everything behind the clutch basket to protect from metal shavings. Then got my file out and gave every "groove" a few pass'es with the file and just smoothed them out. Blew everything off with compressed air. Installed the plates.
I had the high performance clutch springs in prior and decided to go back with the stock springs for a lighter clutch pull. I installed the stock springs. Buttoned up the outter cover and added 3qts. Amsoil V-twin 20/50 (synthetic).
Today when I took it out fora ride. The clutch slips real easy. A hard roll on of the throttle in 5th gear will slip the clutch now. Never had a problem prior.
The two things I changed are:
1.The clutch springs
2.When to a synthetic oil
I drag race Harleys and have guys I race with that truely believe that running synthetics will never work as well on a clutch as standard oil. Then the sythetic oil guys say thats not true.
Could it be my old stock springs are weak or my current motor combo is to much for stock springs? I considered running 3 stock and 3 heavy duty alternateing in the basket. Has anybody tried that?
Theres always going back to all heavy duty springs. And see how that holds with the synthetic. Just hate opening that cover and dropping all that high dollar oil.
The motor is stock displacement. Mikuni round slide carbs, straight unbaffled stock head pipes, Boyer Branson ignition.
 
Well if you drain it in a clean drain pan you can dump it back in. I have run both oils the synthetic less prone to thermal breakdown. never noticed any differance in clutch operation.
 
It may be a combination of both - weak springs and oil that's too slippery. Yes, you can mix the springs equally, 3 of each. Just be sure to alternate them and not put 2 or 3 HD or stock ones next to each other.
 
The stock springs are usually tired by now. You may not need any mods to overpower them.
 
A synth oil will not make your clutch slip. Synth oil at the same grade is not slipperier than a dino oil. Any motorcycle oil that has the JASO MA rating is ok with your clutch.
Lighter oils like you run in a car are not good for your clutch. They have friction modifiers in them to help cars get good gas milage.
The Amsoil is one of the best oils out there. I have run it in my Harley since 04, I ride it hard often, never a slip. 3 qts is a bit much, regular oil changes use 2.1 qts. The main reason I don't use Amsoil in my Xs's is cost. $12 a quart and 1000-1200 mile changes gets awful expensive.
As others have said, the clutch spings are more than likely the problem. That is if everything else is working at it's best. Is the worm gears well lubed? Is the cable well lubed? This removes most of the hard pull. The plastic part of the worm can be cracked and as you work the clutch the cracked part can shift around and bind things a bit as well as use up half your lever travel.
While you had it apart did you sand off the steel plates to remove any discoloration and burrs? Sand the fibers to remove any glazing?
Proper adjustment has a vey strong influence on slipping. If you have your primary open on your Harley and watch the pressure plate move, you will see 1/4 to 3/8 inch travel. Do the same on the XS and you will see about 1/16 inch travel. This smaller travel needs a much more precise adjustment. A hair to tight and it slips, that may be why it works better hot. A hair to loose and poor shifting.
Leo
 
Leo, Thank you for your response. The clutch discs had NO discoloration. Looked like a new set. I never had any slipping issues previous. Just didnt disengage smoothly. That was caused by grooves in the basket. That has bee resolved.
Cable is lubed religously. Couple things I need to double check.
- Oil level. I went by the book.(if I looked up the right one) When I double checked it it was way over the full mark. Should it be checked on the side stand or straight up? Dipstick fully threaded in on resting on the threads?

-WORM GEARS? Where/what are these? What type of maintanence is required?
 
As Recyclebill said straight up or on the center stand, with the dipstick just setting on the threads, not screwed in.
The very early models. XS1 and XS1B didn't have the electric starter. When the starte was added it decreased the oil capacity. Early 3000 cc oil, later 2500 cc oil. Those werefigures for a dry engine, regular oil changes 400 cc's less. So bikes with a starter regular oil changes are 2.1 quarts.
Leo
The worm gears are part of the clutch actuating system. Where the cable hooks to in the left cover is one half of the worm gears. The other half is mounted in the left case. You unhook the cable and the inner part unscrews from the outer part. Just watch for the direction the arm points as it comes out of the outer piece so you put it back in the right position.
The outer piece is the plastic part, it can get cracked. As you pull the lever it takes part of the lever pull to get the crack to stop moving before the clutch starts working. As the crack shifts around it binds the mechanism. This leads to hard pulling and poor clutch action.
If you get the parts very clean and you might find the crack. You may not see the crack because it won't be open except under pressure.
On mine I couldn't see the crack but it was hard to pull, after I replaced it with MIke's replacments It works very well. Two finger pull. Mike's comes with two holes in the arm so you can hook the cable holder in close or far out on the arm. The close hole opens the pressure plate a bit farther, pulls a bit harder,. The outer hole the pull is easier but the pressure plate won't open as far.
Your choise, easy pull or better clutch action. I have mine in the inner hole for better clutch action. The adjustment won't change as much from cold to hot this way.The outer hole with less opening is more effected by the temp change.
Leo
 
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