Clutch won't disengage

[Bstryker]

Hey guys!

Let me give you exactly the details of what has happened thus far. I rode my bike home last week after I bought it from the PO. Excited the next day to show my family I tried to kick start it and dropped the bike on the clutch lever. The perch snapped and I had to get a new one. I bought a cheap one that was supposed to be for a dirtbike so I could ride while I wait for spare parts.

I reassembled the clutch lever and perch and it worked for a couple shifts then my bike got stuck in neutral and no matter how I adjusted the distance of the screw thing on the perch it wouldn't disengage anymore. Since it stopped working I returned that lever and got a mikexs clutch perch and lever, I have tried the full distance of the screw thing and it doesn't disengage the clutch at all. So I'm stuck in neutral.

I've read some of the other threads but I don't know where to start looking for problems, everything was working fine last week and now I can't figure it out.

Could I have messed up the tension or distance of the clutch cable? Could it be a simple thing as adjusting some stuff or do I have to look into messing around with the internals of the bike?

Thanks!

 

[Bstryker]

I've adjusted the locknut and stuff on the side so I don't think it is that. Should I open it up?

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Bstryker,
if you removed the leftside engine casting to get enough cable slack to fit it into the replacement perch I reckon that's where your trouble started.
Leave the clutch the hell alone until you've checked that it's operating system is still OK.
Remove the casting to check the cable and clutch operating system.
Check that the cable is still attached to the multi-start plastic worm's arm.
Check that the worm's arm is still pulled all the way down by it's return spring.
Check that the steel ball in the worm's end is still there.
See if the whole cable set up works OK with the casting off before bolting it back on.

 

[5twins]

You should probably service the worm while in there too. I'm sure it needs it. Pull it apart, clean it, and pack it with fresh grease. I do mine pretty much yearly. I also oil the clutch cable at that time.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... dropped the bike on the clutch lever...

... it worked for a couple shifts then my bike got stuck in neutral...

...So I'm stuck in neutral...

Sounds like a shifter problem...

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Bstryker,
your first post says " - - - got stuck in neutral" and then it says " - - - doesn't disengage the clutch".
That's two different failures.
Can you shift the transmission shift into gear but don't want to because the clutch won't release?
Or is the transmission stuck in neutral so you can't ride even if the clutch would release?
Or what?

 

[Bstryker]

Hi Bstryker,
if you removed the leftside engine casting to get enough cable slack to fit it into the replacement perch I reckon that's where your trouble started.
Leave the clutch the hell alone until you've checked that it's operating system is still OK.
Remove the casting to check the cable and clutch operating system.
Check that the cable is still attached to the multi-start plastic worm's arm.
Check that the worm's arm is still pulled all the way down by it's return spring.
Check that the steel ball in the worm's end is still there.
See if the whole cable set up works OK with the casting off before bolting it back on.

Thanks for the help fredintoon. I haven't opened the leftside engine anything yet. I have just popped open the clutch adjustment thing with the screw and lockbolt. I haven't opened the "Yamaha" labeled engine piece next to the shifter on the left side. Those screws are really rusted and I might strip the screws...

So here is my current state...

I can shift into different gears completely without the clutch lever at all but I can only do it when I am rolling my bike front and back. Sometimes it will only go from first to neutral and sometimes it will go through all gears, sometimes It only goes from neutral all the way up to 5th. I don't know if that will help diagnose what is going on since I don't think I tinkered enough to make it stop working correctly. I've heard that replacing the clutch lever is usually a pretty simple task so I don't know what I'm doing wrong...

 

[Bstryker]

Hi Bstryker,
your first post says " - - - got stuck in neutral" and then it says " - - - doesn't disengage the clutch".
That's two different failures.
Can you shift the transmission shift into gear but don't want to because the clutch won't release?
Or is the transmission stuck in neutral so you can't ride even if the clutch would release?
Or what?

So, something happened and now I'm able to shift again, but only when I roll the bike forward and backwards. The clutch lever seems to not be connected at all. I can shift without using the clutch. I'm not quite sure what is engaged or disengaged from your previous message. I hope this isn't frustrating as I just don't understand the terminology that well.
So let me answer your previous questions, I can shift the transmission into gear by rolling the bike back and forth and shifting but the clutch lever is not being used when I do it.
The transmission isn't stuck unless I roll the bike into a specific position, but in this position, when it gets into neutral it stays in neutral and I can't shift out.
Is there any way that I could describe my situation better 'cause I don't know where to start.

 

[weekendrider]

When you pull the lever is there any resistance?

 

[Bstryker]

When you pull the lever is there any resistance?

Yes there is resistance. I can see the clutch cable going up and down throughout the whole cable all the way into the engine casing. But I have also loosened the screw and had no resistance and it seems to be acting the same...

 

[weekendrider]

You have adjusted the clutch cable at the perch and in the left engine case?

 

[Bstryker]

You have adjusted the clutch cable at the perch and in the left engine case?

Yeah, I've tried both, I haven't opened the "Yamaha" labelled case and I haven't pulled off the engine case, just been turning the worm mechanism that has the little pop-out cover above the left foot stand (clutch adjuster cover).
Been reading all the clutch threads in the tech section but can't seem to find anyone with a similar problem.
Also when I bought the bike the clutch was working fine. This all happened after I dropped the bike, so I assume the internals of the clutch should be okay.

 

[weekendrider]

The round cover with Yamaha on it covers the alternator.
If you don't mind describing, how you are adjusting the clutch?

 

[Bstryker]

The round cover with Yamaha on it covers the alternator.
If you don't mind describing, how you are adjusting the clutch?

So I was originally just adjusting the clutch lever distance. Once I started adjusting doing that I found that it worked, for a couple shifts. Then as I was putting everything back together cause I thought I had it figured it out, it stopped shifting correctly. The cable seemed looser than before. I tried at all settings of the clutch lever and nothing worked anymore. Nothing shifted correctly anymore. It was stuck in neutral. I couldn't shift up or down. I did some research and read some threads and decided to pop the clutch adjustment case off thinking it was that. It didn't help. I tried all different tightnesses for the screw inside the clutch adjustment case and nothing was working. I cleaned and lubed the mechanism from the outside and it started shifting but without the use of the clutch lever. It was completely "loose", with no resistance from the clutch lever. I heard rolling it back and forth can help it get into gear and stuff so I rolled it back and forth and tried to shift. It shifts but in certain positions when I roll it.

So overview. I tried adjusting the clutch lever. It worked a couple times then stopped working. I popped open the clutch adjustment case and tried adjusting the clutch tension, no luck. I cleaned and lubed the "worm mechanism" from the outside and it started shifting, but still with no tension from the clutch lever. So now it shifts but only when I roll it back and forth, and there is no tension or resistance from the clutch lever what so ever, pretty much the clutch lever is useless and it can still be shifted.

Food for thought. When adjusting the worm screw in the clutch adjustment case, can you unscrew it too far? If so, what is the consequence?

 

[weekendrider]

Try this. Loosen the perch adjuster completely. Screw it all the way in. Now on the engine loosen the 12mm nut and screw the stud in till it bottoms out on push rod.
You may want to back it off and screw it in a couple of times to get the feel of it.
When it contacts the push rod back it off an eighth (1/8) turn and tighten the lock nut just snug. DO NOT tighten the lock as much as you can (just snug) or you will have a devil of a time getting it loose.
Now that the push rod adjustment has been made go back and screw the perch adjuster out till the gap (freeplay) between the lever and perch is about a 1/16 inch (about the width of a penny).
There are almost as many variations on this procedure as there members on this site. And as life goes on you will find the way and degree of tightness you like. There is no one and only way for this.
Keep in mind even with the clutch disengaged there is still drag on it and it will be tougher to push around than if it is neutral.

 

[weekendrider]

Food for thought. When adjusting the worm screw in the clutch adjustment case, can you unscrew it too far? If so, what is the consequence?

Yes, it needs to contact the push rod to release the tension of the pressure plate.

 

[Bstryker]

Yes, it needs to contact the push rod to release the tension of the pressure plate.

But if I unscrew it all the way will it ruin the mechanism?

 

[5twins]

No, it won't ruin anything, the screw will just fall out of the adjuster. I think you may need to pull the whole cover off so you can check to see that the clutch cable is still connected up as it should be to the worm. That fall may have knocked something loose. This is what you should see inside - cable coming in the top of the case and connected to the end of the worm lever. Proper adjustment setting will have the cable at around a 90° angle to the arm on the worm .....

 

[nj1639]

Instead of rolling the bike forward and back to check shifting, place the bike on its centerstand and just turn the rear wheel.
Do the adjustment as weekendrider (wer) suggested.....perch adjustment screwed all the way in, adjuster nut behind the chrome cap loosened and then the phillips head adjuster screw turned in to just touch and then backed off 1/8 turn. Perch adjuster then turned out for a pennies width of freeplay at "hands off the lever". I will sometimes leave the perch adjustment wheel lock loose on a fresh clutch adjustment until after a test drive. Sometimes you may need to turn that perch adjustment screw out a half turn or more to fine tune the workings......Try not to break anything more lol.

I'll add that there's a disconnect between the workings of the clutch and shifting when the bike is off as opposed to how things work when it's running and rolling down the road. You're not going to know how it's doing UNTIL you're running down the road.

 

[peanut]

something occurred to me that hasn't been mentioned yet.
If the clutch lever is removed from the perch to replace it ...is it possible that the inner cable has been pushed in and somehow unhooked the cable nipple from the clevis at the worm end ? I know there should be a retainer clip on the clevis but ....who knows what is under the cover .

its difficult to follow the problem as the terminology is perhaps a little loose shall we say but if the clutch cable is still attached to the clevis ,...theoretically if you pull the inner cable at the perch with a pair of grips (or even holding the loose clutch lever,) you should be able to operate the clutch but it would take quite a strong pull.

If you still have the original clutch lever lay it over the replacement lever and check that the lever pivot point and clutch cable connections are in the same relative positions for both levers.