Confused, and need some help diagnosing!

xsgeoff

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This will be a bit long-winded, but hopefully if I give a full picture, someone will be able to understand what is up. :shrug: My engine/carbs/airbox are currently 100% stock.

So, I was having issues with (what I at least thought was) fuel starvation when driving at higher speeds for extended periods (>95kph on flat, straight roads). The engine would just lose power and refuse to rev up, and then sometimes it would shudder back to life, and sometimes it would die completely. It would always start up right away again, first kick (or if I still had speed, drop the clutch and bump start). Never any issues in the twisties in the Odenwald hills though, as I would rarely get above 90kph for very long.

Anyways, I cleaned out my petcocks and took apart my carbs. I talked to a guy I know who specializes in old Yami spare parts, and he recommended doing a rebuild, so I gave the carbs to him and they did a full clean/soak and rebuild with all new jets/needles/seals/etc.

I got the carbs back from him in a "bench-tuned" state, so I could drive the bike over to his shop and use his synching tools. After re-fitting the carbs "un-synched", I took it for a quick spin, and it felt like a brand new bike! The throttle was much more responsive and the engine was less vibraty. Our schedules didn't work, so I drove with un-synched carbs for a week and a half or so, just to work each day (less than 4km) and once into the city for about a 15km round trip. Everything seemed to be OK, except one issue was the idle. Some days I would kick the bike over and the idle would be really high, so I'd turn down the screw, and take off for work. Then on the ride home later in the day, the idle would be really low to the point of nearly dying, so I was very often reaching down and adjusting the idle when I was stopped at a light. Figured it was something to do with the carbs not being synched, so I let it be.

Tuesday night, I finally had the carbs synched. Immediately there was a world of difference again. I could reach much higher speeds with less vibration in the engine and all seemed to be great.

But then, on the way home, I experienced my original issue! Cruising along at around 85kph, and the engine started sputting, wouldn't rev up or build power, and died. Pulled off to the side out of traffic, waited a moment, and kicked it straight to life again. So that issue has clearly not been resolved. But wait, there's more! Ever since the synching, the low-end power has been really shitty. At lower RPMs, the engine really sputters and jerks, making for a slightly unstable ride around traffic circles... And I really have to rev the engine up to avoid stalling when I am starting off from stopped, which can't be nice on my clutch.

Sorry for the wall of text, but any ideas?
My completely inexperienced-with-carbs opinion is maybe my pilot jet is too small? That could explain my low-speed issues, but probably not the high-speed issues.

I was going to do a high-speed shut-down to read the plugs and take photos to show here also, to check combustion, but it started storming here after I got home from work. Maybe I can do it tomorrow night after work.

PS. This forum is awesome and has been super helpful so far, and I hope to one day be able to have the knowledge to repay the service and not be so much of a leecher... :thumbsup:
 
Hey, geoff. My best guess is that crud has somehow worked its way back into the carbs. Might find something in the bowls. I had this issue constantly until I cleaned and sealed the tank, then started using one of the gasohol treatments. That goofy goo doesn't appear anymore...
 
You can drop the float bowls without removing the carbs to do a quick check on how much crud you are getting into the carbs, the jets are housed in the float bowl so you can clean them out as well.
 
Yeah, I feel for ya. I'm kinda spoiled as the XS1 carbs allow me to drop the bowls without removing the carbs. If you do find some unexplainable goo in there, it's probably from moisture reaction from gasohol, and you may want to look into using a gasohol additive.

Since the bike has been trying to run better since your last cleaning, it's probably jetted OK, so no need to rejet yet. Just make sure that no residue is stuck to the insides of the jet orifices...
 
Check your gas cap vent for the high speed lean out and kill issue.
+1 crap from the tank and old fuel lines shedding rubber can buck up a freshly cleaned set of carbs in minutes. I will guess you now have 2 separate issues. Get it up to three issues and your hair will be laying about in bunches on the garage floor
 
Multiple issues was my thinking, so good to have a second voice on that. Interesting thought about the cap vent. Never thought of that, but it does seem like that could make sense. What exactly should I be looking for in that regard?
 
What exactly should I be looking for in that regard?"

A hole? :laugh:

There is a convoluted passage that passes through a gasket or two from the inside of the cap to outside, the design varied through the years but a simple test would be to close the cap on a smallish piece of wire so the rubber seal has an "air leak" try the speed run again, see if that cures it. If it does dissect the cap and clean the passage.
 
Just rebuilt my carbs too but decided to derustify the fuel tank first before running them and rebuild the Petcock too. I was shocked at how much crap was in the tank even though it flushed clean after the initial "nuts and bolts" tank shaking treatment. I'd recommend electrolysis and then an additional rust removal step - I used Evapo rust.

Here's what I did with the advice and resources from the fellas on the site:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35054

Rebuilding the Petcock now - then I'll put my crispy clean carbs on and see what happens!
 
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Thanks, Gary! I took my cap all apart, and there does seem to be some blockage/gunk in the venting passage ways, so there's a good chance your diagnosis was correct! I've got it all apart and soaking in carb cleaner all night. I will put it back together this morning and cross my fingers. :bike:
 
Hey guys, I have a 78 xs650 I just finished and now having trouble tuning my carbs. I am running with mikes xs performance air pod filters and I have strait through drag pipes. timing is good. idles ok and runs fine from idle to about 3000-3500rpm then starts breaking up pretty bad, like it is starving for fuel. im assuming ill need to re jet but not sure where to start or what size jets to use, as well as what notch I should have my slide needle set at. if anyone can give me a base setting to start with, with the mods I have would be greatly appreciated!
 
Have you tried it without the mikes pod filters? 5twins once called them good pencil holders for your desk. Uni filters are suppose to be the best.
 
Just one thought: is your battery/charging system working ok? A bike not charging will do that: die while riding then recover some allow you to start it, run fine, and then start over. Put a voltmeter on there and check voltages at rest, idle, 2k+ rpm etc.
 
I haven't tried it with any other air filters yet, ive been told by a couple guuys to go with the uni filters also. I believe my charging system is ok I am not running a battery, I have a PMA kit with a capacitor and pamco electronic ignition, I don't have a volt meter but I can get my hands on one, I will check voltage also. electrical is not my strong suit...
 
I haven't tried it with any other air filters yet, ive been told by a couple guuys to go with the uni filters also. I believe my charging system is ok I am not running a battery, I have a PMA kit with a capacitor and pamco electronic ignition, I don't have a volt meter but I can get my hands on one, I will check voltage also. electrical is not my strong suit...

Make sure that the filter mount stop flange in the filter is not blocking the air bleeds for the carb. that is a known issue with some filters.

V/R
Riksoto
 
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