dead pickup coil...which pamco parts do I need?

[dilbone]

I've got an '82 that I'm hardtailing. I just attempted to start a couple of days ago and found I had no spark with the culprit being an open coil on the pickup. I thought about putting something out there in the classifieds about needing a pickup coil, but I still have no idea if the TCI is even operable. It seems my best route would be to go ahead and jump into the Pamco even though it's more cash than I wanted to have to spend to get this motor to fire.

I also have a motor from a '78 with points and I scavenged the advance rod out of it...can't get the bushings out though.

It seems like I can go this route:

New Hall effect Pamco with electronic advance from Mikesxs for $189.95

60degree rotor for $34.95

Advance rod bushing for $4.50 but I'm not sure if I need 2 or 3...the kits he sells look like they all have 3 in them but it says in the description that 2 are required.

This seems to be all I need since I have the advance rod assembly from the other motor, but again I'm new to the xs650 and especially to the Pamco ignition.

Any help or advice on this would be appreciated. I emailed Pete Thursday but haven't heard back yet. I'd like to place and order and get this thing to fire sooner than later.

any other ideas I'm all ears!!!

 

[Johnt3]

Your correct on the Pamco if you have the advance rod setup from your '78 engine.
You don't need the 60degree rotor,the kit comes with it. And the cam takes 2 bushings.
You will still need a dual output coil though.
This setup would include the coil.
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/14-0905.html

 

[ippytattoo]

Mikes part# 14-0910 would be a better choice in my opinion as it has the better coil (the coil in the 0905 kit is infamous for the wiring spade terminals failing rather easily). just my

 

[dilbone]

thanks John,

I thought I read from Pete in one of the posts stumbled upon that the old coil would be fine as long as the primary was 3ish ohms and the secondary was 13-15k ohms...maybe I misread that...

The 60 degree rotor was confusing...it said in one description that it was included but then said where to find it separately...got me confused...

well I suppose I need to make an order and get the chain, clutch cable and brake line ready for a quick run down the road once I get some spark...
Then I get to wire it up

 

[pamcopete]

Mikes part# 14-0910 would be a better choice in my opinion as it has the better coil (the coil in the 0905 kit is infamous for the wiring spade terminals failing rather easily). just my

The coil with the spade terminal issue is the 17-6803 coil. The 17-0905 kit includes the 17-6822 coil which does not have a terminal issue and in fact is a very good coil that I ran one summer and was very pleased with. Your suggested kit #17-0910 is a very good recommendation as well because it has the "Ultimate" coil 17-6903 for improved performance and better gas mileage.

Here is a chart to help with selecting the right kit for you:

 

[pamcopete]

Your correct on the Pamco if you have the advance rod setup from your '78 engine.
You don't need the 60degree rotor,the kit comes with it. And the cam takes 2 bushings.
You will still need a dual output coil though.
This setup would include the coil.
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/14-0905.html

John, Thanks for the help. You should install three bushings, one on the left, PAMCO side and two on the right where the advancer used to be. The reason for two bushings on the right side is to prevent the locating pin for the advancer from falling into the cam cavity.

 

[jd750ace]

Although you will get reliable and accurate triggering with the Pamco ignition, you don't get the full benefit without a new coil. Your stock coil began life at around 8K ohms, which is outside the recommended range above. Many here go for the big power coils. I did not.

This is what I'm using:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/380650973149?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Can't tell you precisely how it compares to the popular coils from MikesXS, as they have "capable of" output numbers, rather than a hard data sheet on the web site, but this one's numbers are here, measured per SAE J973a with a 50pF load:

Primary resistance: 3 ohms
Secondary resistance: 11.5 ohms
secondary available voltage-UNLOADED 35Kv
secondary available voltage-LOADED 28Kv
Spark energy- 50mJ

All I know is it starts and runs like a champ. Perhaps Pete can tell us how that compares to the others, and might know something about that test protocol.

Just FYI.

 

[dilbone]

Your stock coil began life at around 8K ohms, which is outside the recommended range above. Many here go for the big power coils. I did not.

How exactly did my coil start at 8k and end up now at 13k on the secondary?


thanks everyone for jumping in here...I really appreciate it.

I just want to know if I can run the stock coil for now and upgrade later?

Thanks

 

[pamcopete]

dilbone,

Yes, you can use the stock coil.

 

[dilbone]

dilbone,

Yes, you can use the stock coil.

Thanks Pete,

Any reason...besides 30 year old reliability, that I shouldn't for now?

Just trying to re-use what I can if it is reasonable to do so. I'm 2.6ohm on the primary and 13k on the secondary. My caps were 8.5k and 9.5k, so obviously I'll need to replace those but the coil itself appears to be in specs.

 

[jd750ace]

How exactly did my coil start at 8k and end up now at 13k on the secondary?

I was reading from the 79 manual.
Pete says it's good, it's good.
I have a good bit to learn about electrical systems myself, although I can find power, ground, and continuity!

 

[Johnt3]

John, Thanks for the help. You should install three bushings, one on the left, PAMCO side and two on the right where the advancer used to be. The reason for two bushings on the right side is to prevent the locating pin for the advancer from falling into the cam cavity.

Thanks for clearing that one up pamcopete.

 

[XSLeo]

On the coils there is an ohm reading that you get by testing from one plug lead to the other. This is the 13k mentioned.
The coil has an output measured in kilovolts. Often shown as like 8k.
I n the book the early coils had a 10k volt output at 4000 rpms. I don't have a spec for the 80 up bikes in KV output but it does spec a spark can jump a 6 mm gap.
In general the higher the out put of the coil the hotter the spark. This hotter spark ignites the air fuel charge better. This leads to a better burn. Producing more power per charge of air/fuel.
This equates to better starting, better running and better fuel mileage.
With a hotter coil you can open the plug gap so as to get a larger spark. This increases the good things mentioned even more.
With my Green Monster coil I have opened the gap from the stock .028-.032 to .038 - ,040. I have thought about opening it more. Like maybe .045.
I know the coil has the power. Opening the gap keeps the spark from jumping the gap till the voltage rises to a higher level. On the stock gap the spark jumps at the stock level of around 10kv. Opening the gap makes the voltage rise. At the .040 it might take 40vk before the spark jumps. This higher voltage creates a larger spark.
I understand there is more to this, but this simplifies it. Making it easier to understand. If you want more info on this Google it.
Leo
Leo

 

[dilbone]

Thanks for the info xsleo. I may just get by with the stock coil for now, but I'm sure an upgrade will happen soon.

I'm more worried about getting a new coil to fit under my tank than cost...

 

[XSLeo]

If your using a stock tank most any coil will fit under it. You may need to mod the stock mount a bit.
If you research coil mounting methods on here and Pamcopete's ignition website, www.yamahaxs650.com you will find a way to mount most any coil under your tank.
Leo

 

[dilbone]

If your using a stock tank most any coil will fit under it. You may need to mod the stock mount a bit.
If you research coil mounting methods on here and Pamcopete's ignition website, www.yamahaxs650.com you will find a way to mount most any coil under your tank.
Leo

It's a king sportster tank that I'm using on this build...I was afraid the stock coil wasn't going to fit...it does barely. The tank sits about as low as I could get it and the tunnel is pretty narrow. I would definitely have to mod the stock mount or make some additional mounting brackets to make a new one work.

 

[Johnt3]

Hey dilbone, I've got the #17-6822 coil on mine. Running it with the sportster tank is a tight fit for sure.I mounted mine on the bottom of the top tube with some 1/8" strap I had laying around.

If I had to do it over, I would find a better spot for it or look for something smaller.

 

[dilbone]

Hey John,

Was your bike twin coils stock?

My stock coil fits barely with the stock mounts and the king tank...I think the 6822 was the only coil that would fit on mine with no mods...all the high output coils with their big wire towers will have a hard time fitting without some mods or mounting bracket extensions of some kind.

I just made my order from Mikesxs...got the pamco, e-advance, new plug caps, and the 3 bushings. I should be in business by the end of the week...fingers crossed.
Now I've got to finish a few more things so I can actually have this bike off of the table and on the ground when I attempt to start at the end of the week.

 

[Johnt3]

Yeah, mine had two coils. I was wanting the new coil up and out of sight. I wasn't thinking about the tight fit because the first tank I had on there was an older sportster and it seemed to have a wider tunnel than the one on it now.That could all be my failing memory. Sounds good though don't it?
I might look into running the coil underneath where the starter was, I saw a fellow member do that on his build.Might be an option.