Diagnosis Help - electrical or fuel

[kungfutoast]

Hi Everyone,
I am hoping to throw this problem at all of you before I throw money at the bike. I am not able to get the bike to run...
Here is what I have;
* 82 xs650 stripped bare
* Uni pods on BS38, 135 main jet & 27.5 pilots. Float needle at the middle position.
* Hughs PMA and regulator
* Pamco Electric Ignition + e-advance
* Battery (standard issue solid state)
*emgo high output coil + lowbrow plug wires
* Headlight with no On/Off switch
* new piston rings and freshly lapped valve seats.
That's about it.

I checked for spark, left side is good, right side was a little weak. I definitely had fouled plugs. I was running rich with gas and not oil fouled. I had my jets turned way to far out @ 1 3/4 turns. Carbs have been synced and valves and cam chain are with in spec. I tested the coil and PMA and all check out within spec. I was having a charging problem when the bike was last running. Checked and rewired my grounds and went through the harness and found no issues. Bike hasn't started since. I did a leak down test yesterday and have no issues with leaks. I am not 180 out on the cam and have great compression.

I am going to start by getting new plug wires, rewire the bike once again and go from there...

But please share your thoughts,

 

[xjwmx]

It's hard to say what the problem is, but it's a lot better to figure out what's wrong (which takes understanding how it works) than to replace all the parts one by one hoping it'll fix it. Start with trying to get it back to how it was, if you remember. Is there a reason you think it needs new plug wires?

 

[motormike]

... if I recall.. with that ignition system.. both sides fire at the same time.. ? so we'll assume the time'n is properly adjusted... ?? ..could it be a " choke " issue... ?

 

[angus67]

You said new rings. Did you atleast monkey ball the cylinders and check ring gap? Not that this is your problem, but , and i don't know the depth if your knowledge, but......
Check your valves.

 

[kungfutoast]

Ok, from the top,
Why new plug wires. I swapped out an old coil I had that did not pass a continuity test. One terminal was dead. I did however keep the plug wires. I cut a good length off of each end as the length was much to long and to get past the frayed ends. It is possible that the plug wires are damaged too and why I am getting a weak spark.

Timing is set, and has not been tampered with since I last ran the bike. I used my timing gun and all. The bike ran really well despite the rich mixture. Also in my experience with the PAMCO ignition + E-advance, you can start your engine when you set everything to default. I had no problem when I first rebuilt the engine. As for a choke issue. I am not sure. Can you elaborate on what you're thinking?

This is not my first rebuild but I am always learning. Yes, I put new rings in as the former ones were rusted up and broken. It took some effort to get those suckers out. The pistons, though, having some carbon build up and grime in the ring grooves cleaned up great. The new rings are gapped and installed correctly. I did a leak down test to see if rings or valve seats were an issue. It's tight as a frogs... you get the point. and the valves are set to Manual specifics. One valve was bent when I got the engine. Valves were replaced. I don't think my problem is in the combustion chamber. But then again I am always learning.

I am not that great with electrical and am thinking this is where my problem is. The wiring is VERY basic but... it's always the simplest things we over look and it often takes some else's observation to solve the problem. Keep the comments coming!!!

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

...* Uni pods on BS38, 135 main jet & 27.5 pilots. Float needle at the middle position.

...I definitely had fouled plugs. I was running rich with gas and not oil fouled...

Float needle?

I'll go with excess fuel problem.
Try this:

Turn fuel off.
Drain fuel from bowls, replace drain plugs.
Remove spark plugs.
Hold full throttle, kick thru several times, no ignition.
Release throttle.
Replace sparkplugs, plug boots.
Leave fuel off, attempt starting.
Note if there's any fire attempt at all.

Turn fuel ON for 5 seconds, only, then turn off.
Leave fuel off, attempt starting.
Note if there's any fire attempt at all.

If it fires up, turn fuel ON, note any run peculiarities.

More help in these:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/was-running-now-wont-start-help-please.46371/

http://www.xs650.com/threads/74-running-super-rich.50419/

 

[grizld1]

That's great, Toast, you have BS38 carburetors. Now click the Tech button, follow the link to the Carb Guide, identify which BS38 carbs you have, and read 5twins' fine work on tuning for modifications. Then compare your jetting to the specs for your carb set; and yeah, we broke it out year by year.

Re. ignition--yep, your system fires both sides simultaneously, so if one side has good fire and the other does not, a bad plug wire or cap becomes the prime suspect. Recommendation: NGK plug caps on Nakaya copper core wires. Any independent shop that's worth a damn will have both.

 

[Jim]

I was having a charging problem when the bike was last running. Checked and rewired my grounds and went through the harness and found no issues. Bike hasn't started since.
I am going to start by getting new plug wires, rewire the bike once again and go from there...

But please share your thoughts,

I would go back and start checking what you did since the last time it ran. If you rewired the grounds and messed with the harness, and it hasn't ran since, start by rechecking what you did. Either you didn't get a good ground somewhere, or a plug isn't reconnected correctly, or a wire has pulled loose at a connector you checked.
Jim.

 

[kungfutoast]

Phew life has me busy and I am just now getting a few moments to rest... if you can call it rest.

TwoMany, Thank you for those links. I passed out with my phone on my face last night. If any ever suffers insomnia I suggest reading motorcycle forums to lull you to bed. I read through the two links and put together a list of things to go over and check. Right off the bat I checked my Pamco to see if the locking dowel was in place. Guess what! It had fallen out! I had enough time tonight to put that back together and see if that fixed the problem. While I was kicking the bike over I did as you suggested and not flood the engine. Still no results and the plugs are not fouled with gas. If I get a moment this weekend I will go through my wiring, checking for poor grounds and connections. I will also repeat your above suggestions to prevent flooding. Hopefully my new plug wires will be here by then too.

I'll follow up as soon as I can with my test results.

Cheers Y'all

 

[kungfutoast]

I would go back and start checking what you did since the last time it ran. If you rewired the grounds and messed with the harness, and it hasn't ran since, start by rechecking what you did. Either you didn't get a good ground somewhere, or a plug isn't reconnected correctly, or a wire has pulled loose at a connector you checked.
Jim.

I will read up tonight! And cure my insomnia!

 

[xjwmx]

Nakaya copper core wires.

There was a guy selling this for a dollar a foot on ebay a couple of years ago. It is interesting. Very stiff when cold but if warm, very pliable. Very rugged outer covering. Would not suggest tryiing to screw on plug caps on a cold day without warming it somehow.