Electrical Issues

[Grimmith]

I finally had a chance to test start my bike, but once I put the battery on the tailight and gauge lights came on and stayed on (pushing the pedal didn't make it change brightness). The horn didn't work and the high beams dont work but the headlight on/off switch worked. I also cant turn the ignition key?

I'm hoping I don't have to go over the wiring diagrams, but any ideas or solutions? p.s. the previous owner took off the blinkers, not sure if it would make a difference.

 

[littlebill31]

By "Can't turn ignition key", do you mean it physically won't move?
Is the key in the "on" position now?
(Usually, nothing comes on until you turn the key "on". It's the main switch.)
Unfortunately, it sounds like you need to re-check all the wiring.

 

[Grimmith]

both actually haha, its stuck in the on position and won't move. well then I guess ill be doing that all winter long good thing there's wiring diagrams in the tech center

 

[littlebill31]

It's best to go back through and check it all. I say this from the experience of frying all kinds of stuff. I'm not electrically inclined, so I triple check everything and do my best to make everything safe and correct.
The diagrams aren't too hard to follow. Just take the time to read them and ALL the electrical threads in the tech section.

 

[system9]

One thing to consider, if you pressed the rear brake pedal and the brightness did not go up, your rear brake switch may be set incorrectly, its behind/below your right foot when sitting on the bike. If its too tight the brake light stays on full time.

 

[Grimmith]

wow really ? haha ok ill have to take a look... it also smoked yesterday because some wires were rubbed raw and touching. any suggestions on why I have lights and the starter turns it over but no spark in the plugs? I was thinking coils but I'm not sure how to test coils if at all possible

 

[650Skull]

You need to do a full continuity test on the loom. This is the best way to sort out shorts in the loom and switches. .......................Before we see a thread of..........Holy Smoke now there is a fire.

 

[retiredgentleman]

If you are seeing smoke, here is a suggestion. Any circuit that can draw enough current, such that the wire insulation starts to smoke, means that circuit is not fused correctly. I don't know what model you have, but the best fusing was used from 1978 Specials and onward. You should have a 20 amp main fuse, a 10 amp ignition fuse, a 10 amp headlight fuse, and a 10 amp signals fuse.
Make sure you are using the correct size fuses.
If the bike only has one 20 amp fuse, you should consider adding some 10 amp fuses.
As Skull mentioned you may be heading for a fire in your wiring harness.

 

[650Skull]

Its a 79 Standard. There are no colored wiring diagrams for that model.................. Is the 78 Standard the same???

 

[Grimmith]

Alright, I'll see what I can do about the wiring, and then check the coils and CDI Module. Then try it again and post if it worked or not haha.

And yes RetiredGentleman, it has those fuses, but only 3 because the other owner took off the turning signals.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - And yes RetiredGentleman, it has those fuses, but only 3 because the other owner took off the turning signals.

Hi Grimmith,
someone who removes a street bike's signals can't be very smart.
I'd say that because the PO had been at it your entire wiring harness is now suspect and needs a complete check-over.

 

[Paul Sutton]

If your bike takes the glass fuses then be aware that the brass clips that hold the fuses in place often start to crack at the base and eventually break off. If you have the time then I suggest you slide each brass clip out and run a bead of solder along the inside bend at the base to strengthen them.

 

[650Skull]

Looks like this is your problem......................Your wiring description, (Fuse box with 4 fuses and a TCI i assume because the XS650's did not have a CDI), the PO has installed a loom from a Special or he has done major alterations to the original loom to wire in the Special fuse box.

Your bike is a 79 Standard and should have a single fuse down by the solenoid. and points ignition not a TCI Factory ignition. Trying to marry the standard gauges and switches to a Special loom would mean there is a lot of alterations in the headlight.

You need to sort out if this is whats been done, and then you will be able to start from there. Also tell us if you have a points ignition or TCI, (Transistor Controlled Ignition).

 

[Grimmith]

...ugh..haha ok well thank you everyone for the help, ill give the guy a call and see how bad he "modified" everything..

 

[XSLeo]

I might suggest getting a repair manual, it has the procedures for testing the coil, or coils. The points have two coils, the TCI uses one.
Leo

 

[Grimmith]

Here is what I'm working with, I really want to get this right by spending as little money as possible.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Yes, that looks like a Standard model, with points and 2 ignition coils. I see a rectifier, so there must also be a separate regulator.
Your wiring is a real disaster. There is no easy or cheap way out of that mess. I recommend you buy a new harness. You also want to get rid of the original rectifier and regulator, as they have served well, but their life is over.
Best bet is to buy a nos VR-115 regulator and a new 3 phase rectifier.
You have a lot of work ahead of you.

 

[650Skull]

I don't know where you got CDI from.....................................

That looks to be an original loom, with a points ignition system. Separate coils, (4th pic), a separate rectifier, (last 2 pics) but it is serious work getting that sorted.

Any new to you bike, especially and old one like our XS650's, need to have every bullet connector, coupling, switches and earth's/grounds taken apart cleaned and reassembled, before trying to start it. I'm no electrical genius, or intermediate for that mater, but when i done my bike i used a continuity or Om meter on the loom before i took the connections apart and again after i cleaned and resembled them, and traced every wire as a part and through any switch and as a whole. An Om meter or continuity testing doesn't use any power it reads the resistance between point A and B, resistance is anything that will stop or reduce power along that line or circuit, could be corrosion on a connector, some wires broken in a connector. If this is done properly there should be no problems when hooking up the battery and running power.

A good Volt meter will have an Om's setting. Some say you can buy a cheap vault meter but the downfall of those are that the test leads are undersized and can give bad readings, need to buy a better set of leads or buy a meter with good leads, that usually means spending more for quality.

Working out a loom and relating it to a diagram was really difficult because i knew nothing but doing the connections and using the Om meter i learned what went where, and knew i had no resistance, (broken wires, shorts, corrosion and switches), through the loom.

You can still do that with the mess your looking at, From the pics i can't see a lot but it seems the PO has just removed the loom cover and made some alterations. Need to sort those out.

My philosophy is............. if i pay some one $100 to do a job i can spend up to $100 on the tools needed to do that job..............Then i can save a lot more money because i have the tools to do the things i would have to pay on another job

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Grimmith,
just so you get the terms right:-
Your profile page says your bike is a '79 Standard.
All XS650s up to and including '79 had points ignition with a mechanical ignition advance module.
'80 and newer North American bikes had TCI (Transistor Controlled Ignition) modules instead.
XS650s never had CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) modules except if someone installed an aftermarket unit.

 

[mrtwowheel]

...ugh..haha ok well thank you everyone for the help, ill give the guy a call and see how bad he "modified" everything..

Asking the PO about the bike will probably be as productive as asking a car salesman questions about a car.....don't expect them to know anything. You're on your own except for a manual and the help you can get from this forum.

Scott