Endless cam chain install, any advice???

[J-Bagz]

ok so i had my engine apart and installed the "endless" cam chain, now that i am at the point of installing the cam i seem to be having an issue with not enough slack to fit over my sprocket on my shell #1 cam. has anyone ever installed one of these and have hints? maybe i "F-ed" up somewhere along the line, i noticed that on 650central they say you have to buy a masterlink with the endless chain??? whats the point of that, i was thinking the point of an endless chain was to avoid pressing and cutting. looking forward to your feedback.
J-

 

[5twins]

New cam chains are very tight when 1st installed in a 650. That same chain is also used in other motors and they may go together with more slack, hence the endless design.

To have any hope of success here, you'll need to lightly bolt down the cylinder and head first. I usually need to do that even when installing a new chain with a link.

 

[J-Bagz]

i have the head lightly bolted with two bolts by the spark plugs, and one between the intakes? hmmmm.....still seems very tight, will have to keep trying.

 

[XSLeo]

The main problem with an endless chain is the fact that the chain feed through the mount bracket for the rear tensioner guide. You have to cut the chain or grind the pin off on one side of the bracket, pry the bracket open to get the new chain in, then squeeze the bracket shut enough to mount it in the engine. Once installed where you ground the pin won't be a problem.
You can only do this with the cases split. After the chain and bracket are installed you lift the chain, slip the crank inplace. Finish the bottom end assembly. Then flip it over pull the chain up, then finish the top end assembly. Get the cam under the chain then install the cam bearings on one side then the other.
As 5twins said you can use spacers to bolt the head and cylinders down, 15 ft/lbs of torque should work.
The chain may still be tight, so using a large screwdriver as a pry bar inside the cam on the second set of bearings to lift the cam can help get the second set of bearings on the cam. Just be careful. It won't take much of a lift but it can be a grunt to stretch the chjain enough.
The chain is pressure lubed at the factory. After it runs a bit some of this lube gets pressed back out of the chain, making it a bit longer.
Leo

 

[5twins]

I don't do the bolts under the plugs or that little rear one. They only connect the head to the cylinder and not either to the block. Use the 8 long head studs on top. You can try it 1st with just the outside 4 but may need all 8. I use 1/2" drive sockets sandwiched between 2 washers as spacers.

 

[J-Bagz]

yes your right, i will do the head bolts this evening, im a dummy for not realizing this, been a mechanic for over a dozen years, doh!lol. i did the split on the tension squeezed it back and tack welded it shut so that is all good, thanks for showing me the error of my way, can't believe i forgot the cylinder needs to push down too. ugh

 

[grepper]

The main problem with an endless chain is the fact that the chain feed through the mount bracket for the rear tensioner guide. You have to cut the chain or grind the pin off on one side of the bracket, pry the bracket open to get the new chain in, then squeeze the bracket shut enough to mount it in the engine. Once installed where you ground the pin won't be a problem.
Leo

Here's a link with a picture of what XSLeo is saying about the rear tensioner guide. http://www.650motorcycles.com/assembly1.html Look about 1/2 way down the page. I just did this about a month ago.

 

[J-Bagz]

thanks guys for the advice, engine is back together, time to work on my hardtail and get her painted up. Still need an Ignition/charging system im aware of the pamco and the banshee charging set up, what do you guys feel like the best bang for the buck is. Also do i have to do anything special with my ignition now that my engine has mods? I have the Thomasa Racing 750cc kit, ported head, r&d valve springs w/Shell #1 cam. thanks again for the advice

 

[XSLeo]

As far as the mods you have the stock igition will run it fine. The stock charging system will work fine.
If you have the stock ingnition and charging system I might try getting it running with what you have. Even building a new wiring harness for these systems is easy. Many wiring diagrams up in the XS650 TECH section.
With no charging system our ignition. Then go for the Pamco and Hughs Handbuilt PMA. Both good systems and work well together. Both have excellent customer support. Both are members here.
If you wired up the stock parts, rewiring it for these systems will be easier than wiring for the stock parts.
Leo

 

[J-Bagz]

i don't have anything as of now other than the stock stuff but not sure if the stock stuff is good. I have no wiring on the chassis, it has been a 7 year project build since first welding a hardtail, its such an old project i got the hardtail from Black Widow Choppers cause they were the only ones at the time that made them, shortly after TC Bros came out with there's which looked ten times better but oh well its on there.
Anyway what i was thinking i may do is get the Pamco and use a fully charged battery so i can get the bike running on my lift and tuned properly then worry about the charging system. Hope to burn some rubber this year finally!

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

Sorry to chime in here a couple weeks later, but why can't the cam chain tensioner be installed after the cases are together?

Clearly the cam chain itself needs to be looped over the crank before installing and bolting the cases together, but the tensioner bolts onto the top crank case and I don't see why it would need to go on before closing up the bottom end.

What am I missing? Reason I ask is I'm about to install my tensioner on my endless cam chain and I already put the bottom end together. Worst case I'll split the chain but I can't see why I'd need to.

 

[5twins]

The tensioner assembly (plunger, spring, housing, etc.) can be installed any time to the back of the cylinders. He's referring to the rear tensioner blade. That needs to go on while the cylinder is off. None of these parts need the cases split as far as I know. I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from?

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

The main problem with an endless chain is the fact that the chain feed through the mount bracket for the rear tensioner guide. You have to cut the chain or grind the pin off on one side of the bracket, pry the bracket open to get the new chain in, then squeeze the bracket shut enough to mount it in the engine. Once installed where you ground the pin won't be a problem.

You can only do this with the cases split. After the chain and bracket are installed you lift the chain, slip the crank inplace. Finish the bottom end assembly. Then flip it over pull the chain up, then finish the top end assembly. Get the cam under the chain then install the cam bearings on one side then the other....

This is what I was unsure about - the suggestion that the tensioner (not the blade) can only be fit around the cam chain (having ground out the pin) when the cases are split, not after. Not concerned about the cylinders at this point.

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

BTW - I'm planning on removing the pin altogether, not just grinding out one side and prying the bracket apart to fit over the chain. No reason to leave the pin behind only 1/2 mounted, risking it falling out, and removing it entirely eliminates the need to pry the bracket open, which in theory could weaken the pin where it mounts holding the tensioner blade in place.

 

[J-Bagz]

weld it back in place and grind it smooth that is what i did

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

I don't weld One trick I'll have to pick up one day when I can free up a corner in the garage. I took the pin out completely and have buttoned up my engine.

 

[Take Warning15]

Tim, did you mention in another thread (maybe on DO the ton) that you used a cam chain that you got on Amazon for about 20 bucks? I thought I read that and was wondering how you made out and if you can send me a link. I'm looking for a chain for mine right now and am also going to go endless.

 

[Bezz]

Digging up lots of old threads but looking for pics of the pin mod discussed in this thread.