Engine dies only when warm

crashcourse

XS650 Addict
Messages
199
Reaction score
27
Points
28
Location
Albuquerque NM
This problem doesn't make sense to me:
Bike starts up after sitting since September on first push of the starter button. Idles fine, everything sounds good, except for a slight tapping that I think is one of the valves. Take it out on the street, ride to the store, less than a mile. After maybe ten minutes I'm on my way home, and when I'm idling in first at the stoplight my engine losses power, rpms lag. I give it some throttle to keep it alive. By the time I'm home, even that won't keep it going. I pull in the clutch or try to idle,the engine just cuts out. I started it up again this morning to listen and look it over. Starts fine, runs great, for about five or ten minutes. It's on the center stand, so I put it in gear and let the back tire spin at idle. Pull in the clutch, back tire doesn't stop until I brake. Let off the brake and it starts spinning with the clutch still in. Gets a little warmer, engine starts to die.

All I can figure out: it isn't the carbs, fuel/air mixture is fine (unless there's something going on in there I don't know about, engine temperature shouldn't negatively effect carbs). It isn't electrical, since it starts strong and runs fine.

Could it be compression? When cold the engine might seal better, but as it warms up the oil viscosity drops and it springs a leak (I've noticed a few drops under where I park, but nothing that would indicate a massive leak).

Could it be the transmission? If the clutch plates warm up and expand, they might start to bind.

The only things that have changed since this was a daily rider were the ignition coil going out (replaced in the fall, but then it was too icy to ride), and my roommate knocked the bike over with his car, which did what I thought was only cosmetic damage (his insurance *finally* paid me - never deal with Farmers).

Any input on where to troubleshoot would be great!
 
That's a common symptom of a coil going bad. They fail when hot, work fine when cold. I suppose it could also be a partially plugged gas cap vent. It takes 10 or 15 minutes for a vacuum to develop in the tank, cutting fuel flow and stalling the bike. After sitting for a while, the vacuum dissipates and things work OK again for a bit. When it starts to happen again, try opening the gas cap.
 
I suppose it could also be a partially plugged gas cap vent. It takes 10 or 15 minutes for a vacuum to develop in the tank, cutting fuel flow and stalling the bike. After sitting for a while, the vacuum dissipates and things work OK again for a bit. When it starts to happen again, try opening the gas cap.


This costs nothing to try and is instantly determined if its the problem.
 
Might be a rich mixture...have a look at your plugs after it craps out.
 
As 5twins said a bad coil gets worse as the coil warms up. It's just a 30+ year old part going bad. It can happen with all other parts brand new.
What year is your bike? If we know we might be better able to help. Putting the bikes year and any mods in your signature will put the info with every post you make.
 
It's an '81 Special. I replaced the ignition coil a few months ago, but hadn't ridden much since. Or is it the alternator coil you're talking about? But the bike is stock other than the new ignition coil. I meant to look at the plugs and gas vent this weekend, but didn't find the time. Maybe tonight after school.
 
I opened the gas vent and it still dies. The plugs were black, but I that could be from just the idling I was doing warming up the bike to test it. In any case, I turned in my mixture screws a little and the engine still doesn't run.
Any other easy things to check for? And like I said, if it is the ignition coil, did I just get a bad one, or could some other component be the issue and the coil is just a symptom? The manual says to replace the TCI if there is ignition trouble and you can't find the problem anywhere else. Has anyone had experience with this? Thanks!
 
And by a little, I mean a quarter turn. I didn't want to go too far since I haven't touched the mixture screws in over a year and it was always fine.
 
Sooty plugs can be caused by weak ignition as well as fuel problems. Resistance creates heat, heat causes more resistance. Check primary resistance on your ignition coil; don't assume it's fine because it's new. If that's in spec, check voltage on your battery against voltage off the kill switch R/W wire. If there's a big difference, start cleaning contacts and connectors and lube with dialectric grease. If there's no joy after that exercise, check your pickup coil and the power lead to the igniter box--good material on that in the tech reference here.
 
Yes,the coils should have the same specs as stock. Primary side 2.5 ohms, secondary 10 -15,000 ohms.
 
Okay, I checked the ignition coil, and I found the page where it says to check the pickup coils, and they all seem okay. My connections are a little corroded generally, and I'll spend some time cleaning them, but if the bike starts and runs for five or ten minutes before it poops out, would that be a connector problem?
 
Did you replace the coil because it was bad, or because it was old? If it was good, put it back and see what happens. If no improvement, it could be the TCI. You can get one on ebay for $35 when they're for auction instead of for sale. It's good to have a spare anyway, even it that doesn't fix what you're seeing now. The most common failure for TCI though is the bike just stops, and will start back up easily, from what I read and experienced myself.
 
Cleaned all the male connectors on Saturday, and now it doesn't start at all. I went back over all the connectors I could think of and didn't find any I forgot to re-connect. For fun I took off the TCI and looked inside: no fried components. Rechecked the ignition coil: it's in spec. One anomaly I discovered, one of my spark plug caps has a resistance of 8.3k ohms, while the other has 4.9k. I think 5k is the spec. Could that be my problem? As the bike runs it heats up, resistance increases 'til the spark is too weak to burn the fuel and the bike dies. Thoughts? Now I need to find whatever I didn't put back together correctly so the bike will at least start...
 
Okay, I've been busy making time for this. I found the loose connection and fixed it, and got a cheap timing light and found that even after it dies I still have spark, so it isn't electrical. So it is probably the fuel system. As far as I know, the carbs on this bike have never been cleaned, so I looked up the carb guide (thanks 5twins) and took my carbs apart, cleaned them, and got them back together without any spare parts. At the same time I cleaned the fuel filter and airboxes, and did a little bit of electrolysis on the gas tank to get some tust out. The bike sounds a heck of a lot better, but still has trouble idling once it gets warm. I noticed when I pull out the choke it runs a lot better, so I think the mix is just lean.

According to the carb guide, for the 34's my mix screw should be 1-3 turns out, and I can get a rough idea of what my mixture is at by inspecting the spark plugs. Am I on the right track?
 
I would replace the high resistance spark plug cap before expecting any positive changes in performance. 8.3K ohms is way too high. You are correct,5K ohms is spec.

Keep swinging at it,half the fun of these old bikes is wrench'in on them.You'll get it!

If I were you,I would put 2 new spark plug caps on it and save the 4.9 k ohms as a spare. Good to throw in a "road trip" tool bag.

But I would not make any more carb adjustments till you replace them.
 
Back
Top